Too much heat? AVR in a cupboard?

[Sig.Rossi]

I'm considering giving up my resistance and getting an AVR.

Problem: They seem to get more or less hot.

The location would be in a cupboard. I can open the front completely, but it would be very tight on the sides, top, bottom and back.

Can an AVR be operated like this?

Are there certain devices that run cool enough for this?

A fan is out of the question.

 

[Doodski]

Not recommended to place any amp in a enclosed cupboard with no air egress and no fan allowed. At the least I recommend this even if you don't like fans.

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[kyuu]

If the front is open it may be alright. What are the actual dimensions on this cupboard space you plan on using? Also, what are your requirements for the AVR (power, number of channels, other features)?

 

[Doodski]

A rule of thumb is, "A temperature increase of 10 degrees Centigrade is generally accepted as cutting the life of a device in half." So if you do operate your amp in a enclosed space expect a reduced life from the stuff.

heat shortens eletronics life - Google Search

 

[kyuu]

Sure but I think declaring that it will run at a substantially increased temperature relies on too many assumptions without knowing the actual dimensions we are talking about. And there may be options that can be recommended that take up less space (therefore leaving more room for air convection) and/or generate less heat in the first place (class D amps) depending on his requirements for the AVR.

 

[Audio Science Pal]

it would be very tight on the sides, top, bottom and back.

Can an AVR be operated like this?

Are there certain devices that run cool enough for this?

A fan is out of the question.

Class D amps, in a smaller than average size AVR should be your search parameters.

 

[paulcc]

I have a Denon AVR in a closed cabinet that was running over 110degF under moderate load. I added the Aircom T9 -Amazon.com: AC Infinity AIRCOM T9, Quiet Cooling Fan System 17" Top-Exhaust for Receivers, Amps, DVR, AV Cabinet Components : Industrial & Scientific- Now the unit stays under 93deg under the same load conditions. The T9 is built very solidly of steel and is programmable for fan speed and temperature profile. It is also very quiet being inaudible under most all conditions. I can highly recommend the T9 if you must have an AVR. There are probably much better designed AVRs than the Denon though.

 

[lamberticus]

Second on the Aircom component cooling units. I have the T8 (rear exhaust) and am impressed by the build quality, cooling performance and low operating noise.

 

[ban25]

I'm considering giving up my resistance and getting an AVR.

Problem: They seem to get more or less hot.

The location would be in a cupboard. I can open the front completely, but it would be very tight on the sides, top, bottom and back.

Can an AVR be operated like this?

Are there certain devices that run cool enough for this?

A fan is out of the question.

You can't seal any AVR on 5 sides and expect it to work -- there simply is no airflow for even passive cooling.

 

[Sig.Rossi]

Thanks a lot for your helpful answers.

In terms of width, the AVR would only just fit into the cupboard. Above and below it depends on the placement of other devices, but there isn't much leeway there either. From the front everything could be open.

Unfortunately, I'm currently traveling and don't have the exact measurements. I could post a photo in just under two weeks or so.

I was also thinking about small Class D AVRs. Unfortunately a rare species.

I already had the Canton Smart Amp. But I returned it because it produced a very strong chemical smell, even from a long distance.

I was now thinking about the JBL MA series, which is unfortunately larger than the Canton.

I would also prefer to have a pre out so that I can continue to use my active monitor as a center. But if something like the JBL should work that might be worth a compromise.

Unfortunately, I didn't find any other small Class D devices. Except for Nubert, who is terribly measured here.

 

[kyuu]

Yeah if you need the features of an AVR and you're dealing with a tight space, some sort of compromise might be inevitable. Given that you say you don't want room correction, at least you might be able to get by with one of the lower-tier JBL MA models, such as the MA710, which are smaller in both height and depth than the two top-tier models which should make the space less of a squeeze while also saving you a fair bit of cash.

I don't know what your timeline for this purchase is, but just fyi we should be getting a review on one of the JBLs in the next month or so.

 

[Sig.Rossi]

Yes, thank you very much. I'm excited about the result.

But based on your advice, probably a heat problem for me too.

Would it be of any use to use perforated metal shelves instead of wooden ones? Would metal be a problem here?

 

[Doodski]

Yes, thank you very much. I'm excited about the result.

But based on your advice, probably a heat problem for me too.

Would it be of any use to use perforated metal shelves instead of wooden ones? Would metal be a problem here?

Perforated metal shelving will allow the thermal rise of heat. The heat still needs a place to be exhausted from the amp storage area. There are 3 types of heat. They are conduction, convection and radiation.

 

[ban25]

Thanks a lot for your helpful answers.

In terms of width, the AVR would only just fit into the cupboard. Above and below it depends on the placement of other devices, but there isn't much leeway there either. From the front everything could be open.

Unfortunately, I'm currently traveling and don't have the exact measurements. I could post a photo in just under two weeks or so.

I was also thinking about small Class D AVRs. Unfortunately a rare species.

I already had the Canton Smart Amp. But I returned it because it produced a very strong chemical smell, even from a long distance.

I was now thinking about the JBL MA series, which is unfortunately larger than the Canton.

I would also prefer to have a pre out so that I can continue to use my active monitor as a center. But if something like the JBL should work that might be worth a compromise.

Unfortunately, I didn't find any other small Class D devices. Except for Nubert, who is terribly measured here.

Even a Class D AVR would not solve the problem because a significant source of heat will be the HDMI section, particularly with 40 Gbps HDMI 2.1.

 

[kyuu]

Without knowing the actual dimensions of the space, I wouldn't declare that anything would or wouldn't solve the problem. Using class D amps isn't just about the amp section itself producing less heat, it's also about the equipment being smaller to leave more room for airflow. Also, quite a lot of people keep their AVRs in entertainment centers that enclose them on all six sides, not just five.

 

[Sig.Rossi]

Ok, can we record this as an interim result:

a) A usual class AB AVR is not suitable for my application,

b) perforated metal shelves would at least somewhat improve the situation?

I found the order details of the cabinet: Depth 44 cm/17 inches, total height 90 cm/35 inches (but must be spread across multiple devices). The width is such that a rack device without ears just fits in.

To the right of the compartments is the large compartment for the TV. Unfortunately, the shelf suspension next to it is closed. Would it make a big difference to use just two pillars instead so that the compartment on the side opens up into the large TV compartment?

Any ideas or should I just skip an AVR?

Thanks a lot for your help. Great forum as always.

 

[Chrispy]

I'd not put an amp/avr in a tight space only open to the front without a fan. Why against fans? They can be very quiet (I use a couple, and the Aircom unit I have isn't the quietest). Even the avrs will have built-in fans, just inadequate for your proposed space. What is the system going to consist of other than the avr?

 

[Sig.Rossi]

I'd not put an amp/avr in a tight space only open to the front without a fan. Why against fans? They can be very quiet (I use a couple, and the Aircom unit I have isn't the quietest). Even the avrs will have built-in fans, just inadequate for your proposed space. What is the system going to consist of other than the avr?

Neumann KH 80 center
Turntable with Graham Slee preamp
Cambridge CXU
Amp(s)/or AVR.

At the moment the CXU and the turntable/Graham Slee are connected directly to Topping PA 5 II and a pretty old Class D amp, which has to be replaced, partly using a passive preamp and some switch boxes. KH 80 directly connected to CXU center.

Found an old photo of the closed cupboard. TV behind three doors on the right, rest behind one door on the left (approximately).

 

[kyuu]

b) perforated metal shelves would at least somewhat improve the situation?

Sure, the perforations would allow airflow through the shelf. Should help quite a bit.

I found the order details of the cabinet: Depth 44 cm/17 inches, total height 90 cm/35 inches (but must be spread across multiple devices). The width is such that a rack device without ears just fits in.

Depth actually seems to be the biggest issue there. AVRs seem to generally be around 15" to 17" deep, and you'll need at least a couple of inches clearance for the connections in the back. Sides will have maybe a half inch to spare, but most of the convection will be happening from the top of the unit. As long as you don't have anything sitting directly on top and give it a couple of inches to breath, that will probably be OK. Not ideal, but OK.

Most of the savings of space the JBL MAs have is in the vertical dimension. Width and depth are about the same as other AVRs. So unless you think the vertical dimension will be tightly packed from the other components, saving an inch or two vertically might not matter much. You'd still have the benefit of less heat production from the class D amps, but if a couple inches of vertical space aren't critical you can also get that from NAD. The cheaper T758 didn't measure all that well, but honestly it's probably quite more than adequate for transparency.

To the right of the compartments is the large compartment for the TV. Unfortunately, the shelf suspension next to it is closed. Would it make a big difference to use just two pillars instead so that the compartment on the side opens up into the large TV compartment?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this?

Any ideas or should I just skip an AVR?

Depends. What made you decide you need an AVR? If what you want to do can be done by separates it may be easier for you to accommodate in your space.

 

[ban25]

Neumann KH 80 center
Turntable with Graham Slee preamp
Cambridge CXU
Amp(s)/or AVR.

At the moment the CXU and the turntable/Graham Slee are connected directly to Topping PA 5 II and a pretty old Class D amp, which has to be replaced, partly using a passive preamp and some switch boxes. KH 80 directly connected to CXU center.

Found an old photo of the closed cupboard. TV behind three doors on the right, rest behind one door on the left (approximately).

So completely sealed with no airflow at all? I would definitely not put an AVR in that, nor any other electronics with even marginal cooling requirements (Topping PA5/PA5 II is famous for cooking itself BTW, see: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ix-d01-module-replacement-for-everyone.44219/). Honestly, the best course of action would be to invest in some new component storage that's appropriate for an AV system or, failing that, configure your system somewhere else in the house.