Thrax Audio Speakers - Anodized casing

[kelesh]

Measurements are decent. We’ve seen way worse.

The price, however, can easily qualify as indecent.

 

[sofrep811]

To stir the debate a bit I can give you a bit more information about the design. What is used an why. But I see very strong opinions based on observing a web picture and reading my essay It would be good if anyone in the discussion has owned a pair or at least listened to one for a while, so a 3rd party can share experience on the actual performance. Any meaningful question will be answered.

” Enclosure resonances - a full metal enclosure with one piece front baffle prevents any vibrations of the cabinet around the drivers aiding in the holographic imaging.” - From Thrax website regarding the Lyra speaker.


I’d like to know why. I think they look great. I’m just curious as to why they used aluminum? I know from MTB, BMX, and even MX that aluminum is not forgiving. They actually have a 150 hour break-in per the maker? WTF is going to change in that time? That screams SNAKE OIL. He can't be serious?

"Artaski recommended about 150 hours of break-in period and said they would further improve as more time was logged in."

 

[Grotti]

” Enclosure resonances - a full metal enclosure with one piece front baffle prevents any vibrations of the cabinet around the drivers aiding in the holographic imaging.” - From Thrax website regarding the Lyra speaker.


I’d like to know why. I think they look great. I’m just curious as to why they used aluminum? I know from MTB, BMX, and even MX that aluminum is not forgiving. They actually have a 150 hour break-in per the maker? WTF is going to change in that time? That screams SNAKE OIL. He can't be serious?

"Artaski recommended about 150 hours of break-in period and said they would further improve as more time was logged in."

The "break-in period" of 150+ hours serves as a break- in period for the users brain mainly. I wonder if the manufacturer can back this up by showing the different measurements at given points in time (probably newly assembled and after 1, 10 and 150 hours of use ...).

 

[Rumen]

” Enclosure resonances - a full metal enclosure with one piece front baffle prevents any vibrations of the cabinet around the drivers aiding in the holographic imaging.” - From Thrax website regarding the Lyra speaker.


I’d like to know why. I think they look great. I’m just curious as to why they used aluminum? I know from MTB, BMX, and even MX that aluminum is not forgiving. They actually have a 150 hour break-in per the maker? WTF is going to change in that time? That screams SNAKE OIL. He can't be serious?

"Artaski recommended about 150 hours of break-in period and said they would further improve as more time was logged in."

Aluminium is way harder than wood (MDF), especially the alloys as used in the machine construction and aerospace. Some of the advantages are that resonance moves up in frequency and is easier to damp, it also provides a stable platform for the driver, meaning it does not bend and try to deform the driver basket and the screws don't loosen up with time. (video showing how difficult it is to hold a screw tight with present vibration

) Any relative movement of the driver and front panel will be detrimental. Any frivolous movement of in the front baffle will also be detrimental. One pice construction resolves the issue with separate parts of the front vibrating separately and storing energy. In our case the whole structure is damped and quite rigid. Another reason is the endurance and stability of anodised aluminium in different environments as example Singapore or Hong Kong versus Colorado or Arizona. Screws hold better in allumnium and it allows for thiner walls than MDF would reducing the size of the product. Generally aluminium is way more expensive and difficult to work (heavier and costlier machinery and tools) , so few go that path or use only reinforced front panels but the precision of the workpieces is unmatched.

As to burn in time, think of it as new shoes. Some fit perfect and are comfortable immediately but some need to be worn a bit to get there. They don't change size or shape during that period so there is not much to measure. Here the effect is similar and is due to the processing of the materials that go in the speaker. Glue, membrane, voice coil and others. It is kind of a hysteresis effect that once the speaker has repeated a certain number of movements and exited its resonances soften certain bonds and the movements are less jittery and smoother while others get harder and locked in. It is noticeable in low levels and clarity. Same effect is observed on many machines and cars. I am certain all of you have experienced the effect in everyday items you use, speakers are no different.

 

[Rumen]

The "break-in period" of 150+ hours serves as a break- in period for the users brain mainly. I wonder if the manufacturer can back this up by showing the different measurements at given points in time (probably newly assembled and after 1, 10 and 150 hours of use ...).

Simple, take any cone driver and measure its main resonance at different amplitudes (signal level) and you will see it is different. Play it for some time at high amplitude and measure again and you will see different readings. After some rest it might go back. Go figure why they do that but they do.

 

[Grotti]

Simple, take any cone driver and measure its main resonance at different amplitudes (signal level) and you will see it is different. Play it for some time at high amplitude and measure again and you will see different readings. After some rest it might go back. Go figure why they do that but they do.

That has nothing to do with the break-in, which the manufacturer refers to. It is basic knowledge, that a speakers voice coil and motor have to cool down to room temperature after being pushed to high amplitude to measure the TSP properly. Even different room temperature can have a measurable effect on measurements (note the measurements of the Neumann KH 80 by Amir). The elastic components of a speaker reach their stable condition long before 150 hours of use. If the manufacturer can prove his claim by presenting differences between the measurements of one of his speakers played for an hour and for 150 hours after a proper cooling down, I would be very surprised.....

 

[Rumen]

That has nothing to do with the break-in, which the manufacturer refers to. It is basic knowledge, that a speakers voice coil and motor have to cool down to room temperature after being pushed to high amplitude to measure the TSP properly. Even different room temperature can have a measurable effect on measurements (note the measurements of the Neumann KH 80 by Amir). The elastic components of a speaker reach their stable condition long before 150 hours of use. If the manufacturer can prove his claim by presenting differences between the measurements of one of his speakers played for an hour and for 150 hours after a proper cooling down, I would be very surprised.....

It has nothing to do with temperature, you can measure the difference next day and indoors so no change in humidity As to the 150hrs it is arbitrary as some plastics take even longer.

 

[Grotti]

It has nothing to do with temperature, you can measure the difference next day and indoors so no change in humidity As to the 150hrs it is arbitrary as some plastics take even longer.

I recommend to read the reviews of the KH 80. The differences in bass between the measurements of Neumann and Amir were likely due to the relatively cold temperature in Amir's place, if my memory serves me right.

And if I would take your point (what I don't), the manufacturer should do what the German manufacturer Burmester does to serve this audiophile myth: they treat each and every bass and mid-driver for several days with a sinus wave generator to save their customers from having to wait for optimal performance for 150, 300, 1500 or whatever number of hours!!!

 

[kelesh]

Aluminium is way harder than wood (MDF), especially the alloys as used in the machine construction and aerospace. Some of the advantages are that resonance moves up in frequency and is easier to damp, it also provides a stable platform for the driver, meaning it does not bend and try to deform the driver basket and the screws don't loosen up with time. (video showing how difficult it is to hold a screw tight with present vibration

) Any relative movement of the driver and front panel will be detrimental. Any frivolous movement of in the front baffle will also be detrimental. One pice construction resolves the issue with separate parts of the front vibrating separately and storing energy. In our case the whole structure is damped and quite rigid. Another reason is the endurance and stability of anodised aluminium in different environments as example Singapore or Hong Kong versus Colorado or Arizona. Screws hold better in allumnium and it allows for thiner walls than MDF would reducing the size of the product. Generally aluminium is way more expensive and difficult to work (heavier and costlier machinery and tools) , so few go that path or use only reinforced front panels but the precision of the workpieces is unmatched.

As to burn in time, think of it as new shoes. Some fit perfect and are comfortable immediately but some need to be worn a bit to get there. They don't change size or shape during that period so there is not much to measure. Here the effect is similar and is due to the processing of the materials that go in the speaker. Glue, membrane, voice coil and others. It is kind of a hysteresis effect that once the speaker has repeated a certain number of movements and exited its resonances soften certain bonds and the movements are less jittery and smoother while others get harder and locked in. It is noticeable in low levels and clarity. Same effect is observed on many machines and cars. I am certain all of you have experienced the effect in everyday items you use, speakers are no different.

Nord-Lock technology is interesting and probably relevant in aerospace/construction or similar uses, but just overkill for speaker attachment. Some threadlocker (or paint, or glue as a substitute) should hold a driver just fine.

 

[Audio Science Pal]

and the screws don't loosen up with time. (video showing how difficult it is to hold a screw tight with present vibration

Thanks for showing us something interesting, with the video of vibration testing and graph results. Nord-Lock might be more advanced hardware than required in most common applications, but it is always fascinating to see how things can be made using the "best" parts and methods.

 

[sofrep811]

Aluminium is way harder than wood (MDF), especially the alloys as used in the machine construction and aerospace. Some of the advantages are that resonance moves up in frequency and is easier to damp, it also provides a stable platform for the driver, meaning it does not bend and try to deform the driver basket and the screws don't loosen up with time. (video showing how difficult it is to hold a screw tight with present vibration

) Any relative movement of the driver and front panel will be detrimental. Any frivolous movement of in the front baffle will also be detrimental. One pice construction resolves the issue with separate parts of the front vibrating separately and storing energy. In our case the whole structure is damped and quite rigid. Another reason is the endurance and stability of anodised aluminium in different environments as example Singapore or Hong Kong versus Colorado or Arizona. Screws hold better in allumnium and it allows for thiner walls than MDF would reducing the size of the product. Generally aluminium is way more expensive and difficult to work (heavier and costlier machinery and tools) , so few go that path or use only reinforced front panels but the precision of the workpieces is unmatched.

As to burn in time, think of it as new shoes. Some fit perfect and are comfortable immediately but some need to be worn a bit to get there. They don't change size or shape during that period so there is not much to measure. Here the effect is similar and is due to the processing of the materials that go in the speaker. Glue, membrane, voice coil and others. It is kind of a hysteresis effect that once the speaker has repeated a certain number of movements and exited its resonances soften certain bonds and the movements are less jittery and smoother while others get harder and locked in. It is noticeable in low levels and clarity. Same effect is observed on many machines and cars. I am certain all of you have experienced the effect in everyday items you use, speakers are no different.

Thanks for the reply. Briefed over and will read tonight with a drink and music. Sincerely appreciate it.

 

[Theta]

These speakers are very expensive, do not measure especially well and have some exaggerated marketing. That's a reason to not buy them, but the pile on makes me uncomfortable.

I kind of agree, I see no mention of the enclosures made of milled aluminium, this is a big plus, I think only Magico and a Swiss company are the only other companies making metal enclosures, except for Genelec who offer it only their mini speakers.

 

[thewas]

I kind of agree, I see no mention of the enclosures made of milled aluminium, this is a big plus, I think only Magico and a Swiss company are the only other companies making metal enclosures, except for Genelec who offer it only their mini speakers.

The large KEF Muon has also an aluminium enclosure and am sure also other brands/models exist, it should be said though that the advantage of such choice is more in the looks and marketing than in audibility if a conventional enclosure is well engineered.

Source of photo: https://international.kef.com/products/muon

 

[Theta]

The large KEF Muon has also an aluminium enclosure and am sure also other brands/models exist, it should be said though that the advantage of such choice is more in the looks and marketing than in audibility if a conventional enclosure is well engineered.

View attachment 430077
Source of photo: https://international.kef.com/products/muon

I sort of agree, but your example is of monstrous dimension and price. Metal enclosure is a good thing for several reasons. I have an aversion to what you call conventional enclosures made of cheap particle boards with Ferrari type paint job which account for a large portion of the price: Very fragile and makes no sense. It's like putting lipstick on a pig.

The large KEF Muon has also an aluminium enclosure and am sure also other brands/models exist, it should be said though that the advantage of such choice is more in the looks and marketing than in audibility if a conventional enclosure is well engineered.

View attachment 430077
Source of photo: https://international.kef.com/products/muon

 

[thewas]

I sort of agree, but your example is of monstrous dimension and price. Metal enclosure is a good thing for several reasons. I have an aversion to what you call conventional enclosures made of cheap particle boards with Ferrari type paint job which account for a large portion of the price: Very fragile and makes no sense. It's like putting lipstick on a pig.

As an engineer I see it totally different, namely a reasonable choice is one that fulfils the predefined requirements (like vibration control, lifespan, design/looks) with minimal waste of resources (like costs, material, time, energy etc). and a good quality high density particle board with the appropriate bracing and damping is working absolutely fine for home loudspeakers which are typically transported only once in special packaging to their indoor final destination and stay there for the rest of their lifes, using unnessary expensive materials for such rather makes no sense.

 

[Sokel]

The large KEF Muon has also an aluminium enclosure and am sure also other brands/models exist, it should be said though that the advantage of such choice is more in the looks and marketing than in audibility if a conventional enclosure is well engineered.

View attachment 430077
Source of photo: https://international.kef.com/products/muon

Rockport also using alu but not visible at the end result (that's the insides) :

It's a choice really,like everything else.

 

[dedobot]

Thrax are 4-5 kilometers from me. I saw their products few times. I don't have the capacity to comment the sound but they looks very well build . Wasn't interested in prices cause the product it self cries "I'm expensive, much expensive ".

 

[Theta]

As an engineer I see it totally different, namely a reasonable choice is one that fulfils the predefined requirements (like vibration control, lifespan, design/looks) with minimal waste of resources (like costs, material, time, energy etc). and a good quality high density particle board with the appropriate bracing and damping is working absolutely fine for home loudspeakers which are typically transported only once in special packaging to their indoor final destination and stay there for the rest of their lifes, using unnessary expensive materials for such rather makes no sense.

I Agree with the technical and scientific aspect of your statement but for the rest, people do move from state to state for career and job (specifically Californians of late). I was interested in buying Wilson Shashas, not a great speaker but not a bad speaker either) and retracted because of irreparable dings and nicks. So I reiterate "Expensive lipstick on a pig".

 

[thewas]

I Agree with the technical and scientific aspect of your statement but for the rest, people do move from state to state for career and job (specifically Californians of late). I was interested in buying Wilson Shashas, not a great speaker but not a bad speaker either) and retracted because of irreparable dings and nicks. So I reiterate "Expensive lipstick on a pig".

I would say not being capable to re-use the factory packaging or call have/call people who know how to transport stuff without breaking it (especially for expensive loudspeakers like Wilsons) doesn't make a product a "pig", but rather... Also on metal enclosures irreparable dings and nicks can occur if not transported with care.

 

[MAB]

I Agree with the technical and scientific aspect of your statement but for the rest, people do move from state to state for career and job (specifically Californians of late). I was interested in buying Wilson Shashas, not a great speaker but not a bad speaker either) and retracted because of irreparable dings and nicks. So I reiterate "Expensive lipstick on a pig".

But these Wilson Sasha are the opposite of your complaint, made from X-Material, not cheap particle board. Do you really think aluminum is durable to damage? It's very soft.

Honestly, dings and nicks in those Sasha are due to poor care, would have been occurred in aluminum or other material. You confuse poor used condition with materials. Those Sasha would have sounded the same built out of Baltic Birch, been easier to move. And less expensive. Lipstick on a pig comes to mind, for different reasons.

You seem to be arguing for increasing the price at all costs to accommodate an obsession with material. Fetishizing materials is common in this hobby, very unproductive.