thomann t.racks DSP 4x4 Mini Review

[jzagaja]

Possible to use two units (t.racks DSP 4x4 Mini Amp) without sync problem? (for 3 way dsp stereo speaker)

 

[voodooless]

Possible to use two units (t.racks DSP 4x4 Mini Amp) without sync problem? (for 3 way dsp stereo speaker)

Inputs and outputs are analog, so there cannot be any sync issues.

 

[jzagaja]

I thought there could be small shifts in digital path. Arylic 2.1 plate amp is nice (despite poor sinad) but there are delays between modules.

 

[bennybbbx]

I thought there could be small shifts in digital path. Arylic 2.1 plate amp is nice (despite poor sinad) but there are delays between modules.

with 2 t.racks same model delay of both models should same normaly when you use same firmware version. it is possible that maybe diffrent hardware versions when you buy longer time ago. but this is no problem because you can for each output channel set a delay in step of 1/48k sample . thats 0.021ms . you need set delay for better fit of the systems so in practice not a problem

 

[jzagaja]

do you know any hack for Arylic plate amp 2.1? It has more functions. I still have two modules so could try measure the delay.

 

[bennybbbx]

do you know any hack for Arylic plate amp 2.1? It has more functions. I still have two modules so could try measure the delay.

if you use 2 diffrent analog amps can make trouble. because it happen that 1 amp bring when it is cold -0.2 db less level with same input than other. thats hearable. I get this problem when i use my ribbon tweeter with 15 $ class d amp(with singnal is input analog) on top of kali or jbl speakers. after longer hear my tweeter get louder. so best is use always same amps that react on same when they are cold or hot.

 

[jzagaja]

question was about same two dsp amps - it's well known they are out of sync so you will get phase shifts between left and right speaker

 

[grogi.giant]

if you use 2 diffrent analog amps can make trouble. because it happen that 1 amp bring when it is cold -0.2 db less level with same input than other. thats hearable. I get this problem when i use my ribbon tweeter with 15 $ class d amp(with singnal is input analog) on top of kali or jbl speakers. after longer hear my tweeter get louder. so best is use always same amps that react on same when they are cold or hot.

You can hear 0.2dB ?!

 

[bennybbbx]

You can hear 0.2dB ?!

can this not all people hear when from crossover at 2 khz upto 15 khz it is 0.2 louder ? . should i do a testsong for abx compare ?or maybe it can more hear because the phase behaviour in crossover range change a little when tweeter is louder. maybe the amp i use is verry worse but when use only this amps for a speaker it doesnt matter if the full range signals of both channel is when temperature is warmer because both get same gain more. i buy it because i need a amp to test ribbon systems.

 

[bennybbbx]

question was about same two dsp amps - it's well known they are out of sync so you will get phase shifts between left and right speaker

normally same 2 dsp amps with same dsp firmware have same latency. out of sync they can only 1 sample maximum which is 0.021ms . or 21 µsec 1/48 khz with analog input. you can test if you can hear delay of 21 µsec between left and right channel. i hear that not. I think i hear 42 µsec but not so clear.

 

[grogi.giant]

can this not all people hear when from crossover at 2 khz upto 15 khz it is 0.2 louder ? . should i do a testsong for abx compare ?or maybe it can more hear because the phase behaviour in crossover range change a little when tweeter is louder. maybe the amp i use is verry worse but when use only this amps for a speaker it doesnt matter if the full range signals of both channel is when temperature is warmer because both get same gain more. i buy it because i need a amp to test ribbon systems.

Majority of population can notice 1.0dB level change. Some can detect 0.5dB. Ability to discriminate between signals of smaller difference is very rare.

Check yourself: https://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_level.php?lvl=6

 

[bennybbbx]

Majority of population can notice 1.0dB level change. Some can detect 0.5dB. Ability to discriminate between signals of smaller difference is very rare.

Check yourself: https://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_level.php?lvl=6

in your linked test i can only hear 0.5 db but this is a diffrent test. the situation i mean is 0.2 db more or less tweeter treble in music . this can more clear hear as only a sine tone. you can use a eq and try a shelving filter 0.2 db. at 2 khz. this can much hear in music. mostly on distortion guitars. try simular setting and compare

 

[morpheusX]

Does anyone knows what is the lower frequency that the DSP can correct? Can it correct up to 10Hz?

 

[jmar1334]

Does anyone knows what is the lower frequency that the DSP can correct? Can it correct up to 10Hz?

19.7 Hz.

 

[avi0707]

Hi, After reading everywhere and watching loads of videos on 2.1 setup.
Im thinking of purchasing - the t.racks DSP 4x4 Mini - and a preamp to dsp (Arylic bp50 i need bluetooth) left and right and one powered sub out.
Will this work ok or can you suggest a DSP and preamp also one small amp to left right speakers 50 watts.
Are there preamps that have wifi with higher quality audio than BT?

1. My main source is one PC for two rooms but is permantly in computer room.

My next question is on PC. (now its hdmi to avr)I would like to output from PC and into T.racks but can T.racks be used as an audio device to output to an AVR?If not i can buy an hdmi-to rca extractor out then into avr.Problem is AVR does not have rca input only spdif, toslink and hdmi.
Should this work I will need to purchase 2 t.racks mini 4x4.Or Purchase a car amp with dsp?

I compared REW, Dirac and from my old man ears Smaart sounds fantastic to me.
Pc to Hdmi out sound great with smaart v9 software. But I notice digital time alignment is off and no way to fix not even on Denon AVR-X540BT by manually setting room distances. (Will digital delay alignment really make a difference?)

1. 1. Projector room - I have 2 full range speakers and will use another seperate subwoofer. (I will stream audio from PC room via bluetooth or wifi)
2. PC room - EqAPO is how i have it setup with smaart v9 now with Denon AVR and 5.1 speakers.

1. I dont need video to avr from pc or to projector.
2. Im looking to use as a 2.1 setup sourcing only audio from pc to preamp wifi or BT no video
3. PC looking to stay at HDMI 5.1 audio with avr if possible.

Denon AVR-X540BT
Polk Audio Blackstone TL1 Satellite speakers qnty (4)
Polk Audio Blackstone TL1 Center speaker qnty (1)
Yamaha NS-SW200 subwoofer qnty (1)
Win 10 PC
Monitor LG 32GN600-B
Nvidia 4070ti
Motherboard - PRO Z690-A DDR4
kateluo km2 acoustics measuring microphone
Behringer U-Phoria UMC202HD
ND9B Digital Sound Level Meter Calibrator 94dB & 114dB

 

[voodooless]

Maybe list exactly what you want to achieve and what equipment you have. An AVR without analog inputs would be a rare things…

Do you also need PC video to go into your AVR?

 

[voodooless]

Hi,After reading everywhere and watching loads of videos on 2.1 setup. Im thinking of purchasing - the t.racks DSP 4x4 Mini - and a preamp to dsp (Arylic bp50 i need bluetooth) left and right and one powered sub out.Will this work ok or can you suggest a DSP and preamp also one small amp to left right speakers 50 watts.Are there preamps that have wifi with higher quality audio than BT?My main source is PC, movies, games and music shown on a projector.
My next question is on PC. (now its hdmi to avr)I would like to output from PC and into T.racks but can T.racks be used as an audio device to output to an AVR?If not i can buy an hdmi-to rca extractor out then into avr.Problem is AVR does not have rca input only spdif, toslink and hdmi.
Should this work I will need to purchase 2 t.racks mini 4x4.Or Purchase a car amp with dsp?

I compared REW, Dirac and from my old man ears Smaart sounds fantastic to me.
Pc to Hdmi out sound great with smaart v9 software. But I notice digital time alignment is off and no way to fix not even on Denon AVR-X540BT by manually setting room distances. (Will Phase alignment really make a difference?)

I dont need video to avr from pc or to projector.
Im looking to use as a 2.1 setup sourcing only audio from pc to preamp wifi or BT no video and on PC looking to stay at HDMI 5.1 audio with avr if possible.

Denon AVR-X540BT
Polk Audio Blackstone TL1 Satellite speakers qnty (4)
Polk Audio Blackstone TL1 Center speaker qnty (1)
Yamaha NS-SW200 subwoofer qnty (1)
Win 10 PC
Nvidia 4070ti
Motherboard - PRO Z690-A DDR4
kateluo km2 acoustics measuring microphone
Behringer U-Phoria UMC202HD
ND9B Digital Sound Level Meter Calibrator 94dB & 114dB

You have surround also… is the PC your only source? If so, I’d be more inclined to just use the PC to EQ the system. EqualizerAPO or Jriver will do this, and no additional hardware is needed, plus you can do all channels, and leave it all in the digital domain.

 

[avi0707]

You have surround also… is the PC your only source? If so, I’d be more inclined to just use the PC to EQ the system. EqualizerAPO or Jriver will do this, and no additional hardware is needed, plus you can do all channels, and leave it all in the digital domain.

Im using one Pc as my only source for computer room and one projector room.
I rarely use projector and was looking to add better audio 2.1 to projector room.
I can wirelessly control pc from projector room.

1. Projector room - I have 2 full range speakers and will use another seperate subwoofer.

2. PC room - EqAPO is how i have it setup with smaart v9 now with Denon AVR and 5.1 speakers.

For the Projector room I want to stream audio from pc to preamp via bluetooth or wifi (dont need 5.1 audio) only 2.1. I want to tune 2.1 speakers.

 

[bennybbbx]

Im using one Pc as my only source for computer room and one projector room.
I rarely use projector and was looking to add better audio 2.1 to projector room.
I can wirelessly control pc from projector room.

1. Projector room - I have 2 full range speakers and will use another seperate subwoofer.

2. PC room - EqAPO is how i have it setup with smaart v9 now with Denon AVR and 5.1 speakers.

For the Projector room I want to stream audio from pc to preamp via bluetooth or wifi (dont need 5.1 audio) only 2.1. I want to tune 2.1 speakers.

you should keep in mind that the SNR measure you see in this test is at +4 db studio level correct ?. Hifi Cinch level is -10 db this mean you need reduce 14 db from the SNR see in this test. So you get lower SNR for the tracks as with other hifi equipment. also you should keep in mind, when you reduce volume on your playback device the tracks get less input. to compensate it you need always give full level input to the minidsp and full volume at output. so you need be able to change volume after t.racks . then tracks work good and noise is no problem

 

[anotherhobby]

I just picked up one of these t.racks 4x4 Mini's for the purpose of replacing a miniDSP 2x4 HD. The reason for the swap is the unbalanced miniDSP was operating between balanced devices and was causing a ground loop hum. I'm happy to say the swap resolved the hum as I had hoped! The only complaint I have about the software is having to use a VM since I'm on a Mac, but at least that works fine. I just wish they had a native Mac and/or Linux utility as well. The bang for the buck is huge here, especially with the low latency!