thomann t.racks DSP 4x4 Mini Review

[Urotdukidoji]

I bought one of these for my subwoofers two and a half years ago, and now the blue input LED blinks and goes up and down in intensity...
Apart from that it still works perfectly, although I don't know if I should order a new one.

 

[otic]

IMO these types of DSP's aren't really for AVR full-range "room correction" i.e. Audyssey, etc.

Why do you think so? I just bought t.racks 4x4 mini to use between the AVR and the multichannel power amp. My goal is to set a delay on all 7 surround sound channels relative to the wireless subwoofer, which Audyssey cannot properly time align - it gives a message that the distance between the speakers exceeds 6m. Is this system configuration bad?

I also noticed that t.racks 4x4 mini "plays" a little quieter than miniDSP 2x4HD (which I also have), is it probably because of the use of RCA-TS (mono unbalnced) adapter?

Ideally, for me it would be to buy a miniDSP 8x8 Flex HT or to buy three additional pieces of miniDSP 2x4HD, but these are higher costs.

 

[rvsixer]

Why do you think so? I just bought t.racks 4x4 mini to use between the AVR and the multichannel power amp. My goal is to set a delay on all 7 surround sound channels relative to the wireless subwoofer, which Audyssey cannot properly time align - it gives a message that the distance between the speakers exceeds 6m. Is this system configuration bad?

I also noticed that t.racks 4x4 mini "plays" a little quieter than miniDSP 2x4HD (which I also have), is it probably because of the use of RCA-TS (mono unbalnced) adapter?

Ideally, for me it would be to buy a miniDSP 8x8 Flex HT or to buy three additional pieces of miniDSP 2x4HD, but these are higher costs.

So starting off you are trying to delay seven channels with with a four channel device? And you have a system with greater than 6m between speakers, and then possibly introducing even more delay with wireless? If so yes, configure the system properly and no need for any extra and (maybe) noisy DSP in there at all. If I misunderstand your intent, diagram it out please.

 

[otic]

So starting off you are trying to delay seven channels with with a four channel device? And you have a system with greater than 6m between speakers, and then possibly introducing even more delay with wireless? If so yes, configure the system properly and no need for any extra and (maybe) noisy DSP in there at all. If I misunderstand your intent, diagram it out please.

Thank you for your answer.

Sorry, I forgot to write that I bought two t.racks DSP 4x4 Mini.

Audyssey's room correction algorithm is slightly flawed, it cannot properly compensate for the delay of the wireless subwoofer - it sees it as "too far away". Since a sound wave cannot be accelerated, I have to play around with adding delays of the rest, wired speakers.

The only thing that worries me is that the connection of t.racks DSP 4x4 Mini between the unbalanced connections of the AVR and the power amplifiers may result in sound degradation?

 

[rvsixer]

Audyssey's room correction algorithm is slightly flawed, it cannot properly compensate for the delay of the wireless subwoofer - it sees it as "too far away". Since a sound wave cannot be accelerated, I have to play around with adding delays of the rest, wired speakers.

The only thing that worries me is that the connection of t.racks DSP 4x4 Mini between the unbalanced connections of the AVR and the power amplifiers may result in sound degradation?

Okay thanks for confirming my understanding of the layout and connections.
1) Of the things Audyssey can do correctly, is its ability to set speaker delays well. Without me actually being there to measure and verify this is all imo, but I would guess it can't 'compensate' due to the previously mentioned speaker layout/connection choices.
2) I'd still suggest proper layout and connection choices to 'fix" the real delay issue, so Audyssey might work for you as intended. Instead of throwing lots of extra money and 7 extra AD/DA conversions at it.
Good luck.

 

[landco]

You can measure and compute PEQ filters with REW software (free and very good) and set the filters into DSP. The same for time aligning. If Dirac does some more magic I don't know but peq and timig is probably enogh for very good room correction results.

How can I import the generated filters into a t.racks DSP 4x4, if there is no function for importing files created in external programs?

manually this is VERY inconvenient, there can be hundreds of parameters with fractional numbers

 

[BlackBushBaby]

I need some assistance with gain matching. Preamp-> T.racks 4x4 -> poweramp
Inside the DSP I have a low pass filter and a low shelf filter with a boost of 8db@30 hz. My question is do I need to make any adjustments to the gain settings inside the DSP to avoid clipping ? Does it have enough headroom inside the DSP for this boost?

I would like to keep the signal to noise ratio as high as possible.

 

[bennybbbx]

My question is do I need to make any adjustments to the gain settings inside the DSP to avoid clipping ? Does it have enough headroom inside the DSP for this boost?

this depend if your preamp use symetrical output and your poweramp symetrical input and which EQ settings you use. then you need reduce gain output in preamp. to test if you get clipping try play sine waves from internet, and hear if it clip. for example this https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/ and set volume to 100%.

 

[landco]

for example this https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/ and set volume to 100%

Amazing advice!

 

[BlackBushBaby]

this depend if your preamp use symetrical output and your poweramp symetrical input and which EQ settings you use. then you need reduce gain output in preamp. to test if you get clipping try play sine waves from internet, and hear if it clip. for example this https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/ and set volume to 100%.

I have symetrical output (preamp)and input(amp). The reason I want to get the input gains correct is because there is quite a bit of noise. This is not necessarily a problem with the DSP, but with my proccessor ( Arcam AV41).

 

[landco]

The reason I want to get the input gains correct is because there is quite a bit of noise

What does a lot of noise mean? How did you determine this? Can you hear him?

 

[BlackBushBaby]

What does a lot of noise mean? How did you determine this? Can you hear him?

At sitting distance I can hear this noise with nothing playing. Distance is about 2.5 meters.

 

[BlackBushBaby]

this depend if your preamp use symetrical output and your poweramp symetrical input and which EQ settings you use. then you need reduce gain output in preamp. to test if you get clipping try play sine waves from internet, and hear if it clip. for example this https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/ and set volume to 100%.

Does it show clipping when the meters goes into the red or orange on the meters?

 

[landco]

At sitting distance I can hear this noise with nothing playing. Distance is about 2.5 meters.

I always advise abandoning the analog path in favor of a purely digital one. Analog connections often have compatibility issues like yours.

 

[BlackBushBaby]

Maybe someday. However most affordable processors and amps do not use Dante or any other digital interface yet. Storm, Trinnov JBL for processors and Powersound for amps are the few that I know of.

 

[TimoJ]

At sitting distance I can hear this noise with nothing playing. Distance is about 2.5 meters.

I also had noise issues, but my model was t.racks DSP 4x4 Mini Pro. Not sure if its better or worse performer in this regard. I used XLR balanced inputs/outputs. I couldn't adjust gains so that hissing noise (from my DIY subs) would disappear and I would still have enough output level before the DSP was clipping. Is the noise you are hearing similar?

I returned the unit and bought MiniDSP 2x4 HD and added balanced-to-unbalanced converter before it. MiniDSP's unbalanced outputs go to Crown amps. Crowns have unbalanced input in addition to balanced so converter was not needed there. Works great, no noise or gain/clipping problems.

 

[landco]

Maybe someday. However most affordable processors and amps do not use Dante or any other digital interface yet. Storm, Trinnov JBL for processors and Powersound for amps are the few that I know of.

Why buy Storm or Trinnov? These are just audiophile toys, you don't need them. You have unnecessary components in your setup - remove the power amps, remove the thomann t.racks DSP. Use an integrated device, 1 receiver for everything.

 

[BlackBushBaby]

I also had noise issues, but my model was t.racks DSP 4x4 Mini Pro. Not sure if its better or worse performer in this regard. I used XLR balanced inputs/outputs. I couldn't adjust gains so that hissing noise (from my DIY subs) would disappear and I would still have enough output level before the DSP was clipping. Is the noise you are hearing similar?

I returned the unit and bought MiniDSP 2x4 HD and added balanced-to-unbalanced converter before it. MiniDSP's unbalanced outputs go to Crown amps. Crowns have unbalanced input in addition to balanced so converter was not needed there. Works great, no noise or gain/clipping problems.

Yes. I too have the Pro version. Also going into DIY subs. My amps can also take RCA input.

 

[bennybbbx]

At sitting distance I can hear this noise with nothing playing. Distance is about 2.5 meters.

I have several active speakers, all except the kali lp6 are not hearable at 50 cm distance. if you have such noise the problem is your power amp use maybe hifi level -10 db input. studio level is + 6-+10 db you need then a reducer that convert the studio level to hifi level

you can use something as this and switch to -20 db.

JTS MA-123

JTS MA-123, schaltbares Dämpfungsglied für Mikrofone, -10 dB. -20 dB und -30 dB schaltbar, für dynamische und Kondensatormikrofone geeignet, Frequenzbereich 22 - 20.000 Hz, Abmessungen: 21 mm x 113 mm, robustes Metallgehäuse, XLR in/out

www.thomann.de

better is if you can find something for the hifi world. I did not know if something exists

 

[BlackBushBaby]

I have several active speakers, all except the kali lp6 are not hearable at 50 cm distance. if you have such noise the problem is your power amp use maybe hifi level -10 db input. studio level is + 6-+10 db you need then a reducer that convert the studio level to hifi level

you can use something as this and switch to -20 db.

JTS MA-123

JTS MA-123, schaltbares Dämpfungsglied für Mikrofone, -10 dB. -20 dB und -30 dB schaltbar, für dynamische und Kondensatormikrofone geeignet, Frequenzbereich 22 - 20.000 Hz, Abmessungen: 21 mm x 113 mm, robustes Metallgehäuse, XLR in/out

www.thomann.de

better is if you can find something for the hifi world. I did not know if something exists

Good tip! I am considering to use the RCA output on my preamp. My poweramps are the Stageline STA2000 and that also accepts RCA inputs. I check that the RCA has 10 db less output than the XLRs. That could already be a a good option too.