The Vinyl Frontier

[Timcognito]

What’s the point of having a daft DAC that’s set you back thousands?

Guess you haven't been reading the reviews here, there is no reason other than extra features to spend more than $200 on a DAC. Take Sir John Alot, its CD quality on Qobuz (first month is free) and compare. You are clearly biased so try to be fair and see if you a real significant difference other than having to get up and turn the LP over. Digital recording is not where any difference comes from, and in fact many argue its worse

MoFi Sued Over Claims Its All-Analog Albums Were Actually Made With Digital Mastering Tech

MoFi, the label at the center of an audiophile controversy, is facing a new lawsuit over claims that some of its albums weren't made from all-analog tapes.

www.rollingstone.com

 

[Timcognito]

Okay

BEL CANTO: CONCERTI FOR THE ENGLISH HORN (PEDRO DIAZ, RICCARDO FRIZZA, METROPOLITAN OPERA ORCHESTRA) [DIGITAL DOWNLOAD]

As the principal English horn of the Metropolitan Orchestra in New York City, multi-instrumentalist Pedro Diaz stands distinguished as one of the pre-eminent contemporary English horn performers. In Bel Canto: Concerti for English Horn, with accompaniment from Members of the Metropolitan Opera...

theaudiophilesociety.com

 

[Sal1950]

I understand that my turntable, on paper, is the Achilles heel of my setup. I just want to know what album people go to to justify the mockery, contempt, ‘snap crackle and pop’ memes that are directed at vinyl.

You seem to miss the whole point.
Love it or hate it, a vinyl pressing can never deliver the sound that's on the master tape, be it analog or digital.
Your listening to a distorted version of that master, altered to make it acceptable to the antique mechanical process.
If your interested in High Fidelity, Vinyl hasn't been an acceptable media for the distribution of music for near 50 years.

Vinyl Mastering

Tips for vinyl mastering - preparing digital masters for vinyl pressing.

www.gottagrooverecords.com

 

[mike70]

They can sound exactly like their masters, there are millions of them, some glorious, some not so much
Do your own homework.
Vinyl never sounds anything like the original master, they physically can't do it.
So they all end up distorted in these ways.
Once more, do your own homework

The Truth About Vinyl Records

The year is 1877 and Thomas Edison presents his “Phonograph” to the world. It wasn’t the only device able to reproduce recorded sound but it was the most reliable. The medium in this early machine was the “Brown Wax” cylinder, which was not actually composed of wax but made of a metal soap...

www.audiosciencereview.com

digital CAN sound like the master ... but if you apply compression ... it's not.

forget theory ... go to the REAL world

if the theory was the reality, you'll never have a LP sounding better than a CD, and there're thousands.

 

[Jack Harrison]

You seem to miss the whole point.
Love it or hate it, a vinyl pressing can never deliver the sound that's on the master tape, be it analog or digital.
Your listening to a distorted version of that master, altered to make it acceptable to the antique mechanical process.
If your interested in High Fidelity, Vinyl hasn't been an acceptable media for the distribution of music for near 50 years.

Vinyl Mastering

Tips for vinyl mastering - preparing digital masters for vinyl pressing.

www.gottagrooverecords.com

You talk about missing the point! Lol.
Everyone gets what you’re saying and have done since you started saying it a zillion posts ago. But you seem incapable of saying it without pathetic attempts at humour seasoned with huge dollops of condescension which are as appetising as a bucket of sick.
Why the heck you feel like you have to police these vinyl threads like some ludicrous keystone cop is beyond me.
We get it. Digital sources generally measure better than vinyl and you prefer it. The whole record playing business is a tedious mindless bore to you. Good grief you dumped your whole vinyl collection so you surely must believe it.
Just tell us something we don’t know.

 

[LewisWaddo]

You seem to miss the whole point.
Love it or hate it, a vinyl pressing can never deliver the sound that's on the master tape, be it analog or digital.
Your listening to a distorted version of that master, altered to make it acceptable to the antique mechanical process.
If your interested in High Fidelity, Vinyl hasn't been an acceptable media for the distribution of music for near 50 years.

Vinyl Mastering

Tips for vinyl mastering - preparing digital masters for vinyl pressing.

www.gottagrooverecords.com

I understand that point. It is not missed.

I’ve purchased music from HD. Tracks, I’ve listened to HD audio taken directly from their masters, and the gains in fidelity were disappointing when I compared them to my equivalent vinyl copies, if I’m honest. So I’m asking, whilst making my own point, which I’m all open to being shown and proven to be wrong over…

What album proves your point?

Which album noticeably takes full advantage of the extra fidelity gained through digital?

Im not talking numbers on paper, I’m talking real world examples. I use numbers on paper to help me purchase my hifi components. I’m switching it around. What RECORDINGS take advantage of all this modern reproduction?
Sure… we all have this extra headroom, but what music takes advantage of it. You must know. I need to hear it, then I’m there.

I listen to my music at reasonable volumes and at a reasonable seating position. I can’t hear all the surface noise of my vinyl. Sure, I could crank up the volume and stand next to the speaker to hear it, but I don’t listen to music like that. I don’t hear pops and clicks thanks to my filter. I have a non destructive rumble filter that I understand is still destructive to the sound, but I’ve not heard anything that it affects. I test my hearing and I can pass a blind test of up to 17khz, which is ok for my age. So I’m not going deaf.

Wow me dude. I completely agree with all your points made. Now.

Name that album.

 

[Jack Harrison]

I understand that point. It is not missed.

I’ve purchased music from HD. Tracks, I’ve listened to HD audio taken directly from their masters, and the gains in fidelity were disappointing when I compared them to my equivalent vinyl copies, if I’m honest. So I’m asking, whilst making my own point, which I’m all open to being shown and proven to be wrong over…

What album proves your point?

Which album noticeably takes full advantage of the extra fidelity gained through digital?

Im not talking numbers on paper, I’m talking real world examples. I use numbers on paper to help me purchase my hifi components. I’m switching it around. What RECORDINGS take advantage of all this modern reproduction?
Sure… we all have this extra headroom, but what music takes advantage of it. You must know. I need to hear it, then I’m there.

I listen to my music at reasonable volumes and at a reasonable seating position. I can’t hear all the surface noise of my vinyl. Sure, I could crank up the volume and stand next to the speaker to hear it, but I don’t listen to music like that. I don’t hear pops and clicks thanks to my filter. I have a non destructive rumble filter that I understand is still destructive to the sound, but I’ve not heard anything that it affects. I test my hearing and I can pass a blind test of up to 17khz, which is ok for my age. So I’m not going deaf.

Wow me dude. I completely agree with all your points made. Now.

Name that album.

I am totally in awe of your patience. Check out the other main vinyl thread. It‘s like some interminable circle of hell. Just going round and round and round and round. Why listening to records is such a trigger for the same tired old one eyed digital fanboys on here is beyond me to explain.
And it’s so disappointing. ASR is a brilliant forum on the whole. If only the values of finding the best equipment with the best sinad at the best price could be applied to this gentle practice of listening to records it would be wonderful.
Personally, I have so many questions I’d like answered about record playing kit, but unless you want to put up with a storm of face palm icons, ancient cartoons, condescending comments and totally gratuitous insults, this isn’t the place to ask them. Sadly.

 

[Sal1950]

Why listening to records is such a trigger for the same tired old one eyed digital fanboys on here is beyond me to explain.

Fanboys?
Isn't that description best applied to a cult who in this 21 century stubbornly adhere to distorted antique playback
gear like vinyl and SET amps? If you love it's sound, that's fine don't don't expect it to be considered High Fidelity
on a 2023 science based website.

 

[Jack Harrison]

Fanboys?
Isn't that description best applied to a cult who in this 21 century stubbornly adhere to distorted antique playback
gear like vinyl and SET amps? If you love it's sound, that's fine don't don't expect it to be considered High Fidelity
on a 2023 science based website.

You can’t help yourself can you? Lol.
Poor old chap.

 

[rdenney]

I am totally in awe of your patience. Check out the other main vinyl thread. It‘s like some interminable circle of hell. Just going round and round and round and round. Why listening to records is such a trigger for the same tired old one eyed digital fanboys on here is beyond me to explain.
And it’s so disappointing. ASR is a brilliant forum on the whole. If only the values of finding the best equipment with the best sinad at the best price could be applied to this gentle practice of listening to records it would be wonderful.
Personally, I have so many questions I’d like answered about record playing kit, but unless you want to put up with a storm of face palm icons, ancient cartoons, condescending comments and totally gratuitous insults, this isn’t the place to ask them. Sadly.

It’s not that bad. There are threads describing real work being done to measure the performance of cartridges as a community activity. Seek those out. Sal has apparently not found them yet or he’d be crapping all over those threads, too, one supposes.

Rick “putting the stuff together to measure several cartridges” Denney

 

[dennis h]

The ignore button works wonders and makes many places tolerable and much more peaceful

 

[Bob from Florida]

The ignore button works wonders and makes many places tolerable and much more peaceful

Yes, ignore helps. However, it does not ignore replies to those being ignored.
Don't feed trolls and eventually they lose interest and troll elsewhere.

 

[LewisWaddo]

Fanboys?
Isn't that description best applied to a cult who in this 21 century stubbornly adhere to distorted antique playback
gear like vinyl and SET amps? If you love it's sound, that's fine don't don't expect it to be considered High Fidelity
on a 2023 science based website.

I appreciate your input Sal1950. Just let me know what album will convince me of the noticeable difference between vinyl and streaming. I don’t mind being poked fun of. I just feel like I’m not missing much from streaming digital. Let me know what I’m missing with an album that caters for all the advantages of digital, and I’ll happily concede that I’ve been missing something for the past 40 years.

Like I said, I have an over priced DAC that doesn’t get utilised. What’s going to convince me to use it? What album?

 

[mike70]

Don't feed trolls and eventually they lose interest and troll elsewhere.

i think that´s the best advice ... move on.

 

[Timcognito]

Bottom line, the great sound comes from how it was set up and mastered, who understood the type equipment and placement of microphones and musicans and the room it was recorded in. Next to how much the music moves you that is where the intense and realistic sound comes from. The differences of good analog and digital are minimal, however playback of LPs have many more variables: condition of the disc surface, flatness, cleanliness; TT speed; cartridge type and angle to groove, VTA, anti-skate, contact force; preamp type and proper application of RIAA curve, to name a few. The key in digital is the transfer from the master and a good DAC in playback. Both can sound very good if the recording set up was good. The premise that digital end to end is some how better all analog or analog to digital is false. Those differences are very subtle in a well mastered recording.

 

[Sal1950]

While you gents are paying big bucks and are stuck listening to 1960s quality 2ch sound. I'm sitting
here listening to Peter Gabriels new I/O album in 5.2.4ch Atmos on Apple Music.
It's about the music, not having a expensive toy to play with.

 

[Jack Harrison]

While you gents are paying big bucks and are stuck listening to 1960s quality 2ch sound. I'm sitting
here listening to Peter Gabriels new I/O album in 5.2.4ch Atmos on Apple Music.
It's about the music, not having an expensive toy to play with.

No you’re not, you’re sat there thread crapping, when you could be just listening. just lighten up and enjoy your music.
if you were playing a record, you’d have a sleeve to look at and notes to read. You sound like you’re terminally bored to me.

 

[LewisWaddo]

While you gents are paying big bucks and are stuck listening to 1960s quality 2ch sound. I'm sitting
here listening to Peter Gabriels new I/O album in 5.2.4ch Atmos on Apple Music.
It's about the music, not having a expensive toy to play with.

I’m sat here listening to my mono pressings of ‘The Sound of Jazz’ and Ellington’s ‘Nutcracker suite’, and loving it! Sounds absolutely incredible. Open invitation to come round mine for a drop of Talisker and a listening session @Sal1950 I’m certain you’ll love it.

Who needs two speakers!? Stereo is a fad! Lol

 

[mike70]

Reality ... not palming faces

When hi-res audio can’t compete with vinyl… | Darko.Audio

In many respects...but not all.

darko.audio

I take the objective info on that article.

One thing is theoretical capabilities and other is ... reality. Summing high compression to many real facts, as speakers THD, acoustics, aged ears, ... that's why you CAN have the same perceived SQ (or better) from analog vs digital. And I said it many, many times in this thread before.

And that's science.

For me, is case closed.
(Pd: you can add many "palming faces" and hilarious pictures while I enjoy my time listening to records )

 

[Jack Harrison]

I’m sat here listening to my mono pressings of ‘The Sound of Jazz’ and Ellington’s ‘Nutcracker suite’, and loving it! Sounds absolutely incredible. Open invitation to come round mine for a drop of Talisker and a listening session @Sal1950 I’m certain you’ll love it.

Who needs two speakers!? Stereo is a fad! Lol

No, no, no. We've all seen the film, you must have seen it too. A sharp intake of breath throughout the cinema at the unsolicited invitation, the breathtaking perfectly rendered and mastered digital Dolby Atmos soundtrack playing through 400 speakers takes an eery and sinister turn. A drop of Tasker later, your guest leaves you sat in your listening chair, starey eyed, mumbling almost incoherently, 'dolby, atmos, digital, good, vinyl, analogue, sixties, bad, dolby, atmos, digital, good'. You've gone to that place where no one will ever reach you.