Do you guys have an opinion of the Robert Silverman piano recordings engineered by John Atkinson of Stereophile? It seems that the Stereophile people should know more than anyone about the best audio systems and recorded music! /s
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The Truth about many "Audiophile" Piano Recordings
- Thread starter pablolie
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Robin L
Master Contributor
The problem, for me, is that an object as physically solid as a piano simply can't be everywhere at once. So, if the instrument is nailed down via a solo microphone it isn't as artificial sounding as when one sticks an ORTF pair in front of the harp. That tends to split left and right hand, make it sound as though the instrument is in two places instead of one.
Robin L
Master Contributor
I've heard some of his recent Beethoven, and I found the performances so underpowered that the recording quality wasn't even on my mind.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #44
Can't talk about John Atkinson, but to me the problem with many "reference recordings" is that the recording is well engineered indeed, but the performance is sterile and un-engaging. I hope I don't offend anyone if I cite Sheffield Labs as an example. I seem to recall they had a piano recording, haven't listened to the musical performances - just the setup tracks.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #45
Back to piano though: to me, if I am privileged to listen to a solo performance and I get the best seat in a great venue with great acoustics... I want to sit at least 10ft away. I want to take in the combined power of the great venue and of the performance. I have been part to that. I'd never ever pick to sit on or under or right next to the piano (unless Yuja Wang is playing
). It'd be weird anyhow.
In an orchestra hall, you never get to sit quite that close, and there's a reason for that, and you still manage to be enthralled by it.
In a smaller venue, especially with a jazz trio, hey... you get all sorts of perspectives. But you never get a 30ft piano. :-D
). It'd be weird anyhow.In an orchestra hall, you never get to sit quite that close, and there's a reason for that, and you still manage to be enthralled by it.
In a smaller venue, especially with a jazz trio, hey... you get all sorts of perspectives. But you never get a 30ft piano. :-D
I had the same experience with Mapleshade recordings. Their schtick is "Our recordings are all recorded live to 2-track analog tape with no EQ, no overdubs, no filtering, no compression, or other studio cosmetics."
I don't think they have any piano recordings, but I bought a couple of their jazz and Ameriana/folk recordings about 25 years ago. The recordings were very good, but the music did not appeal to me.
Robin L
Master Contributor
Sheffield Labs is a great example. Great sound, constipated performances. The M & K Records "For Duke" managed to swing, but direct to disc was mostly a great way to make session musicians sound very nervous.
Robin L
Master Contributor
Or Diana Krall.I'd never ever pick to sit on or under or right next to the piano (unless Yuja Wang is playing
But I digress . . .
Given my 22 years as a concert hall architect let me answer that for you. Ha ha, I'm totally kidding; I know almost nothing about room acoustics and zero about architecture.
It's my understanding that the design of these types of stages is such that microphone placement does not have to be near field. Here's an example of Zellerbach Hall in Berkeley. Take a look at the microphone placement (the pink dots) on pages 4-5.
But I'm sure others on ASR have far better insight into this than I do.
Robin L
Master Contributor
Let me assure you [from personal experience], that wherever microphones are placed in Zellerbach, the sound will be awful. Overall, the nastiest room I've regularly recorded in. Whatever the acousticians did, it does not work for massed strings. Nice crew, though.
Wrong for whom? from what perspective?
Perspective of the Pianist? Perspective of audience in the front row? middle of the theatre?
Given that I am not a Pianist - the Pianists perspective is always going to sound wrong to me...
Good to know! I've only seen a couple concerts there back when I lived in SF. At the time it sounded fine to me, but that's probably because I was in my 20's and was used to the terrible acoustics of small (mostly rock music) venues in SF.
Matthias McCready
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That is a doc from Meyer Sound regarding their implementation of their constellation system.
The goal of this is closer to sound reinforcement rather than recording; ie the mics in pink are for the sound system, which is acting to "enhance acoustics."
According to the Meyer Sound Constallation is, "Using an array of ambient sensing microphones, sophisticated digital signal processing, and world-class loudspeakers, Constellation modifies the reverberant characteristics of a venue and redistributes sound throughout the space, ensuring a natural acoustic experience in every seat."
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As far as the acoustics being rubbish in there for recording strings, I would have two thoughts:
1) This system might very well make some areas sound worse, and might play havoc on traditional micing placement solutions, or just micing in general.
2) I would be curious if said system would have different settings, and perhaps the incorrect one was in place for strings?
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To the point everytime I have heard something done by Meyer Sound it has been extremely good; however this also seems quite complex.
Robin L
Master Contributor
The Fillmore's not bad. A few blocks from Zellerbach is First Congo, Berkeley, Dana & Durant, designed after a church in Leipzig that Bach worked in, sounds marvelous, there's a bus stop right beside the audience left entrance to the stage, always arrives at inopportune moments, but the sound is lovely.
Zellerbach was intended as a multi-purpose venue, so its inherent dryness is useful with loud PA. If you heard something via PA, it was probably above average for that sort of thing. But there was no "air", no sustained hall echo to support string sound, and overall, the room sounds too bright, like it was made of cheap material.
Also, the freight elevator is haunted.
Well, now I want to go back and check it out ...
Robin L
Master Contributor
Recorded the Woman's Philharmonic there, you would hear the elevator rattle in the quiet parts.
Music by Elinor Armer, text and vocals by Ursula K. LeGuin.
During a break, the elevated stage decided to de-elevate, potentially dragging down some very expensive microphones in the process. A lot of people moved very quickly as we looked for the up/down button, somewhere near the front of the stage . . .
Is that recording available anywhere? I'd buy that out of curiosity to hear what it sounds like.
Robin L
Master Contributor
Amazon's got a copy:
Elinor Armer, JoAnn Falletta, The Women's Philharmonic, San Francisco Girls Chorus, Ursula K. Le Guin, San Francisco Boys Chorus, Elinor Armer, Marilyn Taylor - Armer: Uses of Music in Uttermost Parts - Amazon.com Music
Elinor Armer, JoAnn Falletta, The Women's Philharmonic, San Francisco Girls Chorus, Ursula K. Le Guin, San Francisco Boys Chorus, Elinor Armer, Marilyn Taylor - Armer: Uses of Music in Uttermost Parts - Amazon.com Music
www.amazon.com
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