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Multichannel Recordings of Classical ♫ Music only | Tell us about the ones you fell for !

Scytales

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Hi everybody !

Why opening a thread dedicated to multichannel classical recordings? Because we are on a forum where people care about objectivity and perfection. Let's not forget that stereophonic sound was designed and perfected in the 1930s almost from its birth to be on more than 2 channels of recording and reproduction, and that throughout the following decades, many people in the field of classical music recording have striven to record and release albums in multichannel because they were well aware that multichannel audio is the way to improve accuracy and fidelity to the live experience.

In this first post, I am happy to introduced you with an album you will most probably not be able to get because of its scarcity, but will hopefully lead you to discover two musicians you perhaps never heard of, but are worth knowing:
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Jean Cras (1879-1932) is a French naval officer who composed music inspired by his experience of the sea.

His piano works are not in the same league as Chopin's, Rachmaninov's, Debussy's and others of the same caliber. They are nonetheless very enjoyable. These musical works are distinguished not so much by their melodic or rhythmic quality. There are more of the kind of ambient music. These are protean musical pieces, sometimes delicate and sometimes passionate, like the moving surface of the ocean in the open sea.

Jean Dubé is a talented French pianist with a discreet career that deserves more attention. Equally at ease with the works of the great classical repertoire as with entertainment music, he understands what he plays and knows how to find ways to highlight its qualities to help it touch the listener.

The album illustrated above is a rare two discs set, one DTS CD with the full original 5 front-end channels recording with 5 omnidirectional microphones and one CD with a standard 2.0 stereo soundtrack (only the two "inner" microphones are used). I am for myself not able to enjoy this album in its full fledged 5 channels version for I still have only a 3 channels Hi-fi system. Nevertheless, to listen to this album in 3 channels make a better incarnation of the sheer size, power and sound envelope of a grand piano. The tactile presence of the instrument and its ability to fill an acoustic space in a three dimensional perspective are already much better than in only 2 channels stereo. Although the multichannel program is DTS coded (ie not lossless), when the pianist raise the dampers at the end of a piece, the resonances of the instrument continue for several seconds and then die away at a very low level. The perceptual coding therefore preserves enough finesse to not interfere to much with the musical restitution.

Your turn now !
 
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These three of the roughly 200 multichannel SACDs stand out, not only for their sound, but their performances as well. The Bach is infectious (and can create an ear worm). The Dvorak offers some of the best orchestral sound I have heard, and the Handel is quite delightful.
 
I had to say I have to check the meaning of the word 'earworm' I suspected it was an idiosyncratic expression, because I didn't know it.

I have learnt the meaning for my relief ! :)
 
...Why opening a thread dedicated to multichannel classical recordings? Because we are on a forum where people care about objectivity and perfection...
You don't have to convince me. My ears tell me all I need to know about multi-channel classical (and other genre) recordings. Here is one that I find myself playing quite often on the setup (link provided):

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These compositions by Respighi are, of course, quite well known, and represent one of the most engaging examples of 20th-century Romantic music.. Highly recommended.

If you've got the setup to handle the scale of this recording, I've found that its fidelity far surpasses others of The Planets:

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No limiting (clipping) on this recording, and low levels of modulation distortion make this quite engaging and pleasant.

I've also found that any of Mari Kodama's Beethoven piano sonata recordings on multichannel SACD (there are several stretching back to the mid-2000s) by Pentatone Classics are excellent. I own six of these and play all of them quite often. I'm thinking about acquiring more of them. Some are available from private collections on Discogs, etc. Again, if your setup can handle the scale of these recordings, you will be experiencing these performances as if the pianist is in the room.

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Chris
 
I don't have the knowledge to add anything here but I do want to link in member @Kal Rubinson who I'm sure can add much. He's about the most knowledgeable multich classical listener I'm aware of.
 
You don't have to convince me. My ears tell me all I need to know about multi-channel classical (and other genre) recordings. Here is one that I find myself playing quite often on the setup (link provided):

View attachment 439748

These compositions by Respighi are, of course, quite well known, and represent one of the most engaging examples of 20th-century Romantic music.. Highly recommended.

If you've got the setup to handle the scale of this recording, I've found that its fidelity far surpasses others of The Planets:

View attachment 439749

No limiting (clipping) on this recording, and low levels of modulation distortion make this quite engaging and pleasant.



Chris
Sounds interesting, The Planets is one of my favorites. I have this one on bluray and the visuals are very nice https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Planets-an-HD-Odyssey-Blu-ray/70822/
 
This October 2021 recording of Beethoven's 5 Piano Concertos, in 5 channel SACD, is very nice-- from Haochen Zhang, The Philadelphia Orchestra, and Nathalie Stutzmann. I haven't heard the entire cycle of Beethoven's Symphonies from Osmo Vanska and Minnesota Orchestra mentioned above, but their 6th symphony I've very much enjoyed. The Vanska/Minnesota Orchestra also has an amazing Sibelius Symphonies 1-7 cycle. All mentioned in this post are from the BIS label on 2 and 5 channel hybrid SACD.
zhang-stutzmann-5beethoven-piano.jpg
 
This disc is a real musical treat :

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Bach's double concerto is a two channels recording, but the Mozart's and Brahms's are in three channels. Old, but both the musicians and the recording engineers have something to teach about realizing a good recording !
 
Another exceptionally well-recorded disc album by the pianist Jean Dubé (SYR 141386) :

SYR141386.jpg


Sibélius's piano works are not exactly the most fascinating pieces of music I have heard, but Jean Dubé, as always, makes its best to let that music shines and the album ends with an impressive transcription of Finlandia. Better have a powerful Hi-fi set-up !

The recording was made with five real channels (five microphones), as the album presented in the opening post.
 
You don't have to convince me. My ears tell me all I need to know about multi-channel classical (and other genre) recordings. Here is one that I find myself playing quite often on the setup (link provided):

View attachment 439748

These compositions by Respighi are, of course, quite well known, and represent one of the most engaging examples of 20th-century Romantic music.. Highly recommended.

If you've got the setup to handle the scale of this recording, I've found that its fidelity far surpasses others of The Planets:

View attachment 439749

No limiting (clipping) on this recording, and low levels of modulation distortion make this quite engaging and pleasant.

I've also found that any of Mari Kodama's Beethoven piano sonata recordings on multichannel SACD (there are several stretching back to the mid-2000s) by Pentatone Classics are excellent. I own six of these and play all of them quite often. I'm thinking about acquiring more of them. Some are available from private collections on Discogs, etc. Again, if your setup can handle the scale of these recordings, you will be experiencing these performances as if the pianist is in the room.

View attachment 439755

Chris

It would be helpful if people could say what is in the surround channels. Is it discretely mixed where they are placing instruments in the rear channels or are the microphones placed to pick up ambiance/distance cues (which will pick up some of the instruments but far more minimally than a discrete mix)?

This disc is a real musical treat :

OTAtOTcyNC5qcGVn.jpeg


Bach's double concerto is a two channels recording, but the Mozart's and Brahms's are in three channels. Old, but both the musicians and the recording engineers have something to teach about realizing a good recording !

Do you hear much difference between the 3-channel and 2-channel mix? It's my experience if the speakers are great and setup properly in stereo they can fill in the center just as well as a 3-channel mix.

For the RCA Living Stereo albums, the titles that were duplicated by Sony BMG and Analogue Productions the latter have sounded better to me in every instance (levels matched with ReplayGain), they have better high frequency extension and more realism in the midrange. In comparison it sounds like the Sony BMG used some modern noise shaping that is not offensive compared junk like CEDAR but still sonically compromised.
 
Do you hear much difference between the 3-channel and 2-channel mix? It's my experience if the speakers are great and setup properly in stereo they can fill in the center just as well as a 3-channel mix.
In my experience (and supported by a number of non-blind group demonstrations), the major effect of adding the center channel (by switching from the stereo to the 3-channel tracks of LivingStereo and LivingPresence SACDs) is a notable widening of the soundstage. My suspicion is that this happens because of the removal of the center-channel signals. Is there also more/better center fill? Maybe.
 
It would be helpful if people could say what is in the surround channels.
Unless otherwise specified, all surround recordings that I post will be in standard 5-channel surround format with ambience channels (i.e., delayed echo channels in the two surround positions). Only a very few classical recordings are in what you refer to as "discrete" format--usually when recording solo compositions or chamber music. All multichannel orchestral recordings that I have are in surround (echo) channel format (even if they weren't recorded with only 5 microphones--like John Eargle details in his Microphone Book).

Classical piano recordings are usually recorded with spaced arrays--like this. String quartets are sometimes in discrete format and sometimes in surround echo format. All my LA Guitar Quartet (LAGQ) SACD surround recordings are in discrete format.

Do you hear much difference between the 3-channel and 2-channel mix? It's my experience if the speakers are great and setup properly in stereo they can fill in the center just as well as a 3-channel mix...
That hasn't been my experience, i.e., preferring two-channel mode if listening to an older three-channel RCA Red Seal Living Stereo or Mercury Living Presence recording. My experience is like Kal's. Something is missing (and notably around 2-3 kHz) when the center channel is not at the same amplitude as the front L/R channels.

Chris
 
Unless otherwise specified, all surround recordings that I post will be in standard 5-channel surround format with ambience channels (i.e., delayed echo channels in the two surround positions). Only a very few classical recordings are in what you refer to as "discrete" format--usually when recording solo compositions or chamber music. All multichannel orchestral recordings that I have are in surround (echo) channel format (even if they weren't recorded with only 5 microphones--like John Eargle details in his Microphone Book).

Classical piano recordings are usually recorded with spaced arrays--like this. String quartets are sometimes in discrete format and sometimes in surround echo format. All my LA Guitar Quartet (LAGQ) SACD surround recordings are in discrete format.

Ambience in the surrounds is more common, but I still always want to clarify because poor decisions in mixing do exist. In this Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto release from a very good classical label the person said the piano spans the front and rear channels which I would not have guessed had they not told me.

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In this Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto release from a very good classical label the person said the piano spans the front and rear channels which I would not have guessed had they not told me.

61hG92csGaL._SL1073_.jpg
This is interesting. I own that recording and I just listened to it again (multichannel DSD ripped from SACD). It actually does have ambiance surround channels, but the bandwidth of the surround channel piano reflections extends into higher frequencies, but the delay of the channels due to the hall dimensions is quite clear from the front channels (much more than 40 ms from the stage direct arrivals, I would guess).

Having been in that music hall several times before (the Morton Meyerson Symphony Center in downtown Dallas), I can say that this is actually representative of the surround acoustics in the real hall--where the Dallas Wind Symphony plays (i.e., lots of brass and higher frequency instrumentation in the woodwinds and percussion). That's the way the hall was designed (apparently unlike many other music halls in existence, which suffer from too music air and side wall + ceiling absorption, such as the older Dallas Music Hall at Fair Park--which is really terrible if you're not in the middle sections of the audience):

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So I'd have to disagree with your assessment that this recording puts individual (discrete) instrumentation into the surround channels, because I hear no evidence that's occurring. I'm not really familiar with the recording engineer (Jeff Mee), so I can't say how he arranged his microphone array to produce the results on the recording.

I can say that this is a fairly live recording (as they go) and that I do listen to it fairly often. I don't like the pauses between tracks due to my Oppo player's inability to bridge the gaps seamlessly while playing DSD files on SSD.

Chris
 
This is interesting. I own that recording and I just listened to it again (multichannel DSD ripped from SACD). It actually does have ambiance surround channels, but the bandwidth of the surround channel piano reflections extends into higher frequencies, but the delay of the channels due to the hall dimensions is quite clear from the front channels (much more than 40 ms from the stage direct arrivals, I would guess).

Having been in that music hall several times before (the Morton Meyerson Symphony Center in downtown Dallas), I can say that this is actually representative of the surround acoustics in the real hall--where the Dallas Wind Symphony plays (i.e., lots of brass and higher frequency instrumentation in the woodwinds and percussion). That's the way the hall was designed (apparently unlike many other music halls in existence, which suffer from too music air and side wall + ceiling absorption, such as the older Dallas Music Hall at Fair Park--which is really terrible if you're not in the middle sections of the audience):

View attachment 456209

So I'd have to disagree with your assessment that this recording puts individual (discrete) instrumentation into the surround channels, because I hear no evidence that's occurring. I'm not really familiar with the recording engineer (Jeff Mee), so I can't say how he arranged his microphone array to produce the results on the recording.

I can say that this is a fairly live recording (as they go) and that I do listen to it fairly often. I don't like the pauses between tracks due to my Oppo player's inability to bridge the gaps seamlessly while playing DSD files on SSD.

Chris

I have never heard it, I was basing this off what someone else wrote. More examples of discrete symphony mixing:

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I never make an assumption anymore, poor taste in mixing can extend to even these supposed audiophile labels.

On this rock/pop music forum where pop music like "Pink Floyd" are very popular tons of people love "psychedelic"/discrete classical mixes.
 
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So I'd have to disagree with your assessment that this recording puts individual (discrete) instrumentation into the surround channels, because I hear no evidence that's occurring. I'm not really familiar with the recording engineer (Jeff Mee), so I can't say how he arranged his microphone array to produce the results on the recording.
I agree with you about hearing the piano in the rear speakers but only if I put my ear to one of them. Of course, one likely would hear the same thing if one was sitting in a central orchestra floor seat and put an ear trumpet in one ear!
I can say that this is a fairly live recording (as they go) and that I do listen to it fairly often. I don't like the pauses between tracks due to my Oppo player's inability to bridge the gaps seamlessly while playing DSD files on SSD.
How can you tolerate that, especially with the Rhapsody?!
I have never heard it, I was basing this off what someone else wrote. More examples of discrete symphony mixing:
Tacet is a horse of another color. Their mixes are entertaining but make no claim to accurate reproduction of a normal concert perspective.
 
How can you tolerate that, especially with the Rhapsody?!
Not very well. But I like that composition a great deal, and the liveness of the above recording still draws me to listen. I can reach over and pop on the original SACD if I get too irritated with the delays.

I've got the Rhapsody on multichannel DSD with Werner Haas, so I can listen to the entire composition without noticeable pauses. It just doesn't strike me like the above recording, though.

Chris
 
I've got the Rhapsody on multichannel DSD with Werner Haas, so I can listen to the entire composition without noticeable pauses. It just doesn't strike me like the above recording, though.
I have a few others but I prefer the Hough.

Are you using the Oppo to access your library files or are you using it just as a DAC?
 
On this rock/pop music forum where pop music like "Pink Floyd" are very popular tons of people love "psychedelic"/discrete classical mixes.
I do have a handful of multichannel DVD-As of Gordon Goodwin's Big Phat Band that were apparently recorded in discrete format in the studio and placed on the surround channels in like fashion. I like them a lot (but of course, I've been a Lab Band fan most of my life now). I had to de-clip and re-normalize the tracks on a couple of those albums (being in PCM format, I could do that using Audacity) that made their listenability go way up and I no longer have to grit my teeth to listen to them.

re you using the Oppo to access your library files or are you using it just as a DAC?
I'm using the Oppo 103 as my library server. I think I've got a bit over 175 multichannel SACDs (and a few stereo SACDs), along with ~40 DVD-As and ~30 BD audio albums now. They all reside on an SSD that's plugged into the USB port on the front of the unit. It's not a large library, but it's still growing. There really aren't that many SACDs on the market the last time I looked--about 5000 titles total.

Chris
 
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