The best digital preamp : Yamaha wxc50 or WiiM pro used with an external dac ?

[Tangband]

I have the Yamaha wxc50 as a digital preamp using spdif output with volume regulation to a Rega R dac. The sound is good, but I know that the Yamaha in preamp mode unfortunately does SRC with everything to 48 KHz. Yamaha does talk about 48 bit volume precision which seems strange because the Yamaha chip used has a SRC sinad of 108 dB , ie just 18 bit. To the advantage of Yamaha - its totally bug free.

The SRC chip used in Yamaha is a YSS 952.

http://www.sinou-hk.com/datafile/2012121117415977716.pdf#page63

Im seriously considering a WiiM pro which has the same ability to do volume regulation using spdif out. It doesnt do any SRC and is using a true 24 bit volume regulation .

Now, many of you might have both the Yamaha and the WiiM , and Im wondering If the WiiM is audible better as a digital preamp ?

 

[Filio45]

Why not just buy from amazon and hear for yourself? The cost is barely more than a couple of nights out and can be returned.

FWIW I noticed my Neumann 120II sounding cleaner in the bass when I changed from using my Topping E50, connected via analogue balanced outputs, to the Wiim Plus Pro with coaxial outputs. Almost like the small cabinets became subwoofers in their own right, such was the impact. I cannot really comment about other aspects of the sound until I go back to compare again, but subjectively that bass 'cleanliness' probably extends throughout the whole FR. Of course, it could be as much about using the monitors digitally as about the Wiim's own impact.

 

[MAB]

why not just buy from amazon and hear for yourself?

Yeah, odd to start a poll on ASR to collect a bunch of subjective impressions with no measurements. These polls don't create science, rather lead to additional confusion on the Yamaha and Wiim products.
Seems it's an intro to one of those random discussions about the audibility of volume control topologies and/or sample rate conversion. The sample rate and bit depth 'problems' are mathematically and acoustically explored ad nauseum (per Nyquist, 48kHz is a non-problem for humans, please tell me we are not challenging the fundamentals or claiming bat-ears). ASR member even has free tools to explore the actual electrical differences between implementations (pkane).
The poll is not useful and sorta goes against the grain of ASR. As you suggest: buy the Wiim Pro, then send it in for testing. I am pretty sure that isn't on the OP's agenda though...

 

[Tangband]

Yeah, odd to start a poll on ASR to collect a bunch of subjective impressions with no measurements. These polls don't create science, rather lead to additional confusion on the Yamaha and Wiim products.
Seems it's an intro to one of those random discussions about the audibility of volume control topologies and/or sample rate conversion. The sample rate and bit depth 'problems' are mathematically and acoustically explored ad nauseum (per Nyquist, 48kHz is a non-problem for humans, please tell me we are not challenging the fundamentals or claiming bat-ears). ASR member even has free tools to explore the actual electrical differences between implementations (pkane).
The poll is not useful and sorta goes against the grain of ASR. As you suggest: buy the Wiim Pro, then send it in for testing. I am pretty sure that isn't on the OP's agenda though...

I dont have any agenda. But I know different digital sources sometimes can measure/sound slightly different . This has Amirm showed many times .

The WiiM pro is already carefully tested by Vintageflanker - the measurements thats missing is from the digital stage of the Yamaha wxc50 . I can hear that the wxc50 sounds slightly better if disabling the preamp mode , and using it in the player mode . And this is using spdif through the same Rega dac in both cases .

So being ” digital” doesnt always mean its ” perfect , pure sound forever ” as Phillips once ( wrongly ) stated .

Im gonna buy a WiiM pro in the near future

 

[kemmler3D]

wondering If the WiiM is audible better as a digital preamp ?

Audibly, very doubtful. Standard response: If you have competent electronic gear that works well for your needs, spend your money on acoustics or better speakers instead.

 

[Tangband]

Has someone been able to compare these streamers for real ?

 

[MAB]

I dont have any agenda. But I know different digital sources sometimes can measure/sound slightly different . This has Amirm showed many times .

Out of context. And to be clear, Amir has shown different measuring DACs many times, but rarely demonstrated or commented on different sound. Please stick to facts and use more precision in your language. Amir does not often show that DACs sound different, in fact he has many times shown that DACs that measure poorly actually don't sound bad, so you have managed to re-write the findings here. I assume that if you plan to argue, you will back up this 'many times' claim, with links.

I can hear that the wxc50 sounds slightly better if disabling the preamp mode , and using it in the player mode . And this is using spdif through the same Rega dac in both cases

This seems to have become your calling, the ability to hear the volume control on your WXA. If you can hear an improvement when disabling the preamp, you can measure it too.
And, since this is ASR, I shouldn't have to remind you that these types of listening impressions are not scientifically valid. But you keep posting Darko videos and odd public-sentiment polls a couple times a month on this subject, and it is always a mess, sometimes getting the thread closed due to your continued attempts to derail the forum into nonsense-land.

There are tons of scientifically valid ways to answer your question both electrically and acoustically. As I linked above, tools are even developed by ASR members to do the comparison, for free. But you simply won't do science, and instead spread confusion. So, I do feel you have an agenda.

Has someone been able to compare these streamers for real ?

BTW, you should get the Wiim, it has PEQ which will help you get more even response out of your speakers and room. And while you're at it, get the tools here and make some measurements, or organize a real test with level-matched digital samples so people can actually participate in a quasi-scientific endeavor rather than spreading Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.

 

[waynel]

Out of context. And to be clear, Amir has shown different measuring DACs many times, but rarely demonstrated or commented on different sound. Please stick to facts and use more precision in your language. Amir does not often show that DACs sound different, in fact he has many times shown that DACs that measure poorly actually don't sound bad, so you have managed to re-write the findings here. I assume that if you plan to argue, you will back up this 'many times' claim, with links.

This seems to have become your calling, the ability to hear the volume control on your WXA. If you can hear an improvement when disabling the preamp, you can measure it too.
And, since this is ASR, I shouldn't have to remind you that these types of listening impressions are not scientifically valid. But you keep posting Darko videos and odd public-sentiment polls a couple times a month on this subject, and it is always a mess, sometimes getting the thread closed due to your continued attempts to derail the forum into nonsense-land.

There are tons of scientifically valid ways to answer your question both electrically and acoustically. As I linked above, tools are even developed by ASR members to do the comparison, for free. But you simply won't do science, and instead spread confusion. So, I do feel you have an agenda.


BTW, you should get the Wiim, it has PEQ which will help you get more even response out of your speakers and room. And while you're at it, get the tools here and make some measurements, or organize a real test with level-matched digital samples so people can actually participate in a quasi-scientific endeavor rather than spreading Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.

Not every improvement that can be heard can be measured. Don’t forget the placebo effect.

 

[MAB]

Not every improvement that can be heard can be measured. Don’t forget the placebo effect.

The placebo effect is exactly what I am referring to, and is at-play here in a big way.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a detailed analysis of a volume control, or sample rate conversion to 48kHz (actually, I've seen that countless times). And I would love to see OP get past posting about placebos. Believe me, I didn't forget placebo!

 

[waynel]

The placebo effect is exactly what I am referring to, and is at-play here in a big way.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a detailed analysis of a volume control, or sample rate conversion to 48kHz (actually, I've seen that countless times). And I would love to see OP get past posting about placebos. Believe me, I didn't forget placebo!

Actually, my example was not great. The placebo effect can be measured.

 

[MAB]

Actually, my example was not great. The placebo effect can be measured.

Good point, and I propose we measure that placebo on the Yamaha WXC volume control for start!

 

[Tangband]

Good point, and I propose we measure that placebo on the Yamaha WXC volume control for start!

Can someone measure this - how do you do this , can it be done with audacity ? If I would know how , I would do it.

- How to measure the difference between ”player mode” and ”preamp mode” on the spdif digital output. ? My Audient id 14 have a toslink input and the Yamaha wxc50 has toslink output and input. If you explain to me in step by step how to do it, maybe I can make measurements with audacity on my Mac.

 

[MAB]

Can someone measure This - how do you do this , can it be done with audacity ? I I would know how , I would do it.

- How to measure the difference between player mode and preamp mode on the spdif digital output. My Audient id 14 have a toslink input and the Yamaha wxc50 has toslink output and input. If you explain to me in step by step way maybe I can make measurements with audacity on my Mac.

You did send me a reference to 'nocebo'. Placebo has a wiki page too. It's a statistical test for validity. It's just the probability of observing a change when no change occurred. There are literally conferences on this, international, multiple industries, medical is the most obvious.

 

[BDWoody]

I dont have any agenda. But I know different digital sources sometimes can measure/sound slightly different

Have you done a controlled test to find out if this is something to explore, or something to dismiss?

No? Let me know when you have that data and we'll reopen the thread.