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Super tweeters?

Pearljam5000

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What's going on with all these so called "super tweeters" ?

t90a.jpg
t500a.png
 

DjBonoBobo

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Ideas for more threads you could start:
- Do I need an infra sub?
- How much membrane do I need?
- Are two woofers better than one?
- Transmission line or bass reflex?
- Advantages of D'Appolito?
- Extra enclosure per driver?
- Wall mounting - yes or no?
- Why are there dipoles?
- MDF, wood or aluminum?
...
 
OP
P

Pearljam5000

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Ideas for more threads you could start:
- Do I need an infra sub?
- How much membrane do I need?
- Are two woofers better than one?
- Transmission line or bass reflex?
- Advantages of D'Appolito?
- Extra enclosure per driver?
- Wall mounting - yes or no?
- Why are there dipoles?
- MDF, wood or aluminum?
...
Thanks I wrote all these ideas for future threads, it's hard thinking about them on my own.
 

Steve Dallas

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Amusingly, it occurred to me last evening to ponder what esoteric thread Pearljam5000 might start today, and "SUPERTWEETERS!" is actually what came to mind.
 

sergeauckland

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What's going on with all these so called "super tweeters" ?

View attachment 111470View attachment 111471
A solution looking for a problem.

As HD recordings have a frequency response nominally extending to 40+kHz, one's loudspeakers should also go to 40+kHz, even if we can't hear it!

Incidentally, all these supertweeters have significant output starting not much above 10kHz, so their effect is audible to most people, hence can't be accused of doing nothing. Whether they do anything that couldn't be done by turning the treble knob up a smidge...

S.
 

tw99

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. Whether they do anything that couldn't be done by turning the treble knob up a smidge...

S.

TREBLE KNOB, SIR ? My elite audiophile system contains no such control that could badly affect the sound, reduce "air", make it seem like I was sitting 3 rows further back in the concert hall, etc :)
 

mhardy6647

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What's going on with all these so called "super tweeters" ?

View attachment 111470View attachment 111471
Not a very specific question! ;)

There are times that some of us need high sensitivity tweeters to put (literally and figuratively) on top of high sensitivity treble drivers with limited HF extension. My loudspeakers are one such example (OK -- two such examples).

Indeed I used a pair of Fostex T90A "supertweeters" for quite a few years. I also still have them, packed away for a rainy day. They are nice, non-piercing :) tweeters for high-sensitivity applications. They are not inexpensive -- but not bad, price-wise, when purchased used.

beta test ;)
IMG_0340 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

final configuration (used atop Altec 604E Duplexes)

071 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

I have, in full disclosure, replaced them with decidedly less sexy, substantially less expensive, but quite competent (for my needs!) B&C DE35 compression tweeters. Note: 1) the configuration of the loudspeakers (and XO) 'below' the supertweeter has also changed markedly. 2) the mounting of the compression drivers and horn is not optimal :rolleyes:

DSC_0144 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

Does this help any? :cool:
 

ta240

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I've most often seen them used on top of full range speakers that end up being not-so-full range.

I'd think there would be a chance of timing issues and the possibility of even canceling high frequencies if they aren't placed perfectly, especially with multi-way speakers.
 
OP
P

Pearljam5000

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Amusingly, it occurred to me last evening to ponder what esoteric thread Pearljam5000 might start today, and "SUPERTWEETERS!" is actually what came to mind.
Lol, I'll take that as a compliment we
Not a very specific question! ;)

There are times that some of us need high sensitivity tweeters to put (literally and figuratively) on top of high sensitivity treble drivers with limited HF extension. My loudspeakers are one such example (OK -- two such examples).

Indeed I used a pair of Fostex T90A "supertweeters" for quite a few years. I also still have them, packed away for a rainy day. They are nice, non-piercing :) tweeters for high-sensitivity applications. They are not inexpensive -- but not bad, price-wise, when purchased used.

beta test ;)
IMG_0340 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

final configuration (used atop Altec 604E Duplexes)

071 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

I have, in full disclosure, replaced them with decidedly less sexy, substantially less expensive, but quite competent (for my needs!) B&C DE35 compression tweeters. Note: 1) the configuration of the loudspeakers (and XO) 'below' the supertweeter has also changed markedly. 2) the mounting of the compression drivers and horn is not optimal :rolleyes:

DSC_0144 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

Does this help any? :cool:
Great post, thanks :)
 

mhardy6647

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It is also probably worth noting that that the B&C driver above is emphatically not a "supertweeter" (i.e., its "flat" response does not extend into the formally ultrasonic territory above 20 kHz), but the Fostex drivers/horns in the OP are.
Indeed, the venerable/(in)famous Fostex supertweeter sold for many years by Rat Shack Radio Shack (with built in XO) as the 40-1310 add-on "supertweeter" also has reasonable output above 20 kHz.

Bottlehead designer Paul Joppa reported many years ago on audioasylum of his use of the aforementioned 40-1310 as an ultrasonic transducer.
https://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=hug&n=155741&highlight=radio+shack+Paul+Joppa&r=&search_url=/default.mpl?searchtext=radio+shack&b=AND&topic=&topics_only=N&author=Paul+Joppa&date1=&date2=&slowmessage=&ip=&sort=score&sortOrder=DESC&sortRank=Forum&forum=ALL

Quoth Paul:
I used them in an industrial application long ago and can confirm the smooth and extended highs - we measured them past 70kHz. Not having any interest in crossovers at 5kHz and above at the time, I never listened to music through one of these; now I wish I'd picked up a couple.

1612887382322.png

source: https://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/flipbook/1979_radioshack_catalog.html "new for 79" :)

1612888611681.png

source: http://diyaudioprojects.com/Drivers/40-1310/40-1310.htm

These were made and sold for a long time -- the early, Japanese-made morphs are, at this late date, held in peculiarly high regard and go for stoopit money;) on, e.g., eBAY.

It might also be worth mentioning 1) there have been (and still are) myriad knock-off rip-off reproduction versions of this "bullet horn tweeter" sold under various brand names. Some of them, empirically, ain't bad, either (and they were/are very cheap). 2) Fostex still makes/sells a modern version of this tweeter at a reasonable (compared to Fostex's other supertweeters!) price.

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/bullet-tweeters/fostex-ft17h-horn-super-tweeter/

1612888545785.png
 
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mhardy6647

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I'd think there would be a chance of timing issues and the possibility of even canceling high frequencies if they aren't placed perfectly, especially with multi-way speakers.
I'd agree (FWIW) -- at least in principle. In practice "perfect placement is impossible given the range of wavelengths involved in audio! :)
that said: the perfect is the enemy of the good. :cool:

To wit:
at 20 degrees C:

@ 20 Hz, lambda = 1.717 meters
@ 200 Hz, lambda = 171.7 cm
@ 2000 Hz, lambda = 17.17 cm
@ 10,000 Hz lambda = 3.434 cm
@ 20,000 Hz, lambda = 1.717 cm
 

solderdude

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A solution looking for a problem.

As HD recordings have a frequency response nominally extending to 40+kHz, one's loudspeakers should also go to 40+kHz, even if we can't hear it!

Incidentally, all these supertweeters have significant output starting not much above 10kHz, so their effect is audible to most people, hence can't be accused of doing nothing. Whether they do anything that couldn't be done by turning the treble knob up a smidge...

S.

And you may also get audible differences when used as super tweeters on a normal speaker by interference between the tweeter in the speaker and the supertweeter. Combfilter effects, increased treble (through higher efficiency) etc.
 

3125b

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A pic from it for flavor :)
The rag on the stick holding the woofer (more or probably less) in place is just an engineering marvel :)

I guess super tweeters are for the people that don't use reconstruction filters. It all makes sense now.
 
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