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Study: Is I²S interface better for DACs than S/PDIF or USB?

ElNino

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So, the scientific approach is to provide an accurate description of the findings:

For a DAC with good clock recovery, SPDIF is as good as I2S.
For a DAC with poor/degraded clock recovery, there may be some benefit for an I2S interface
The I2S interface is as good as a DAC with a well-engineered SPDIF interface.

None of these conclusions points to I2S being a bad idea as a DAC data interface. The conclusion does point to the need for a DAC with a well-engineered SPDIF interface.

You're not drawing the right conclusions from the data presented here, partly because you may not understand how clocking schemes typically work in audio hardware. For the most part, designers don't do any type of reclocking/de-jittering on I2S data, whereas it's relatively straightforward to add an additional clock recovery PLL/reclocking/do ASRC on S/PDIF data. You can see in Amir's original post that the I2S interface leads to additional jitter-related sidebands, in part because of this.

I'd rephrase your conclusions as follows:
  • In most conventional designs, S/PDIF permits for lower-jitter clocking in an external DAC than I2S.
  • For an external DAC with poor/degraded clock recovery, there are very limited practical scenarios where there would be a benefit to an I2S interface (this would require very short cables, proper electrical clock distribution, and a clean clock master). In most actual scenarios, like the measurements Amir showed, the I2S interface is still inferior.
  • For external DACs, the I2S interface can never be as good as a well-engineered S/PDIF interface. At best, under perfect conditions, I2S can be just as good, but the engineering pitfalls are significant.
 

fabien32

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Hello everyone
I really want to try the IIS HDMI connection to connect the D90MQA to my Pc, but I don't know what software to use to have it run. I don't want to use it just on a sacd or blue ray player. I heard that I need a HDMI to I2S/IIS HDMI OVER I2S card, thats easy, but then what? Do you guys know how to do it? Do I need a special software? Is this not exactly what Amir did for the testing of this original post?
 

Veri

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Hello everyone
I really want to try the IIS HDMI connection to connect the D90MQA to my Pc, but I don't know what software to use to have it run. I don't want to use it just on a sacd or blue ray player. I heard that I need a HDMI to I2S/IIS HDMI OVER I2S card, thats easy, but then what? Do you guys know how to do it? Do I need a special software? Is this not exactly what Amir did for the testing of this original post?
You could use a bridge like an X-SPDIF2 or a Singxer, but there's really no point.. the intermediary format for USB.. is also I2S. Why buy another USB device just connect it to the D90? Pointless.

It is offered as an input only as an alternative to s/pdif etc, not because it is "better" or anything. It's actually the format with the largest chance of incompatibilities...
 
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linger63

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You could use a bridge like an X-SPDIF2 or a Singxer, but there's really no point.. the intermediary format for USB.. is also I2S. Why buy another USB device just connect it to the D90? Pointless.

It is offered as an input only as an alternative to s/pdif etc, not because it is "better" or anything. It's actually the format with the largest chance of incompatibilities...

Well I reckon I2S comes it pretty handy for the people that want to do this...........

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revi...-physical-sacds-through-an-outboard-dac-r971/

Works beautifully for me with an OPPO 205 and Topping D90 and just cost me around AUD$75!!!!

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-Interface-Separate-Extract-Audio-I2S-Optic-Fiber-Coaxial-HDMI-ToI2S-IIS/124522696807?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

I can see issues if the DAC being used does not allow I2S pin setting adjustments though.
 

gvl

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^^^ hopefully clock jitter is well controlled in that device
 

linger63

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^^^ hopefully clock jitter is well controlled in that device

Well I guess the nature of I2S in separating the data and clock signals should aid jitter control but it would still be nice if Amir got hold of one.
 

Veri

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Well I reckon I2S comes it pretty handy for the people that want to do this...........

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revi...-physical-sacds-through-an-outboard-dac-r971/

Works beautifully for me with an OPPO 205 and Topping D90 and just cost me around AUD$75!!!!

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-Interface-Separate-Extract-Audio-I2S-Optic-Fiber-Coaxial-HDMI-ToI2S-IIS/124522696807?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

I can see issues if the DAC being used does not allow I2S pin setting adjustments though.
That's a neat use case :)
 

gvl

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Well I guess the nature of I2S in separating the data and clock signals should aid jitter control but it would still be nice if Amir got hold of one.

If done right. With the Topping D90 the stability of the I2S clock is very important as the AKM chip doesn't have any built in jitter correction.
 

linger63

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Markus 1204

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Hello, I hope I am writing in the right area. What do you think of this terrible impulse response? The MiniDsp SHD is brand new but the sound over LAN is bad. The good impulse response is with HifiBerry Digi + Pro via SPDIF. Toslink and analog XLR are also ok. Everything that goes through the Ethernet directly into the SHD is bad. Why? In acoustic measurement, the Energy/Time Graph is much higher, too.
Best regards, Markus
20210205_015915.jpg
20210205_015933.jpg
 
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Gradius

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Hello, I hope I am writing in the right area. What do you think of this terrible impulse response? The MiniDsp SHD is brand new but the sound over LAN is bad.

Are you using Cat5E cables or better (like CAT6 or up) ?

It needs Gigabit Ethernet or it will not works.

USB2 is around 480Mbps, while GbE is around 930Mbps (real world speed).

Also, check if you have the most recent FW installed on DAC, as it can be just a bug too.
 

mansr

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Not really. No 100mbps in the world can accomplish 98.3Mbps, let alone the CRC transmission.
Fine, actual throughput might not be quite enough for 16 channels. Measuring the speed with a device that happens to be on my desk at the moment, I get 94 Mbps, enough for 15 channels of 192 kHz, 32-bit audio with a little to spare. That's 13 channels more than most people will be using. So again, why do you say it "will not work" without GbE?
 

Gradius

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Fine, actual throughput might not be quite enough for 16 channels. Measuring the speed with a device that happens to be on my desk at the moment, I get 94 Mbps, enough for 15 channels of 192 kHz, 32-bit audio with a little to spare. That's 13 channels more than most people will be using. So again, why do you say it "will not work" without GbE?

Ask the manufacturer, they did put a GbE there for some reason.
 

Gradius

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Look again.

Latency can play a major role here. Depending on size package, can be over 6 times under 100Mbit.

Besides, I am trying to help the dude with the problem, and you are only attacking me.

But fine, keep at it. I have enough.
 

ElNino

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Realistically, the possibility of this being related to GbE is virtually zero. Mansr is right.
 
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