Steve Guttenberg - Audiophiliac

[smallricey]

Many possible, but much of it is social reinforcement.

Supposedly

I would imagine a lot of it comes down to them having already seen other reviews that planted a seed. There's also the possibility that manufacturers documentation can put out subtle hints that could influence impressions. I mean is there any way to show that these "similar" impressions are reached independently? Also, a lot of the flowery poetry is just a sort of common dialogue at this point. They've all learned the lingo, and much of it is fairly obtuse and open to interpretation.

Failing (or passing) a blind test is very conclusive afaic. As far as the stuff about humans having trouble comparing too very similar sounds, I don't buy it.

I tend to agree, except if the setup is so difficult then it's almost no point to call it a conclusive evidence.

I think there's an article that shows human cannot remember the sound that was played 30 sec ago.
So supposedly that's true, then a truly effective blind test would be extremely difficult to set up.

Same with measurement, I think the most measurements we see are snapshots.
I wonder how much limitation are we actually seeing.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

If humans cannot remember a sound played 30 seconds ago...then I'm even less interested in various reviewers thoughts on a speaker they just listened to compared to one they last heard 6 months ago. lol

Not sure what that has to do with a blind A/B comparison though. There wouldn't be any pauses at all in the comparison.

 

[typericey]

Any particular reason why?

Like you said his reviews are like ads. To me, Andrew R. is formula influencer and YT content creator. He's not authentic and seems like he cares more about how "handsome" he looks and how cool his listening room is, than anything else.

 

[MattHooper]

ZU are a slap in the face to proper engineers who have strived throughout the years to advance the standard of audio reproduction you are defending the indefensible.
Keith

How defensible was your selling that expensive vinyl playback equipment? I mean over 20 grand?...To play vinyl?


There are people who think anchovies on pizza are an abomination.
Others who think pineapple on pizza is an insult to God.

I'm glad they aren't the only ones making pizzas (because I like both, sometimes on the same pizza!)

Some people even think Pie is an abomination:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics...pie-its-gloppy-its-soggy-its-un-american.html

I'm glad those people aren't in charge of every bakery. It's nice to have the option of eating pie.

 

[smallricey]

If humans cannot remember a sound played 30 seconds ago...then I'm even less interested in various reviewers thoughts on a speaker they just listened to compared to one they last heard 6 months ago. lol

Not sure what that has to do with a blind A/B comparison though. There wouldn't be any pauses at all in the comparison.

I'm not sure why you would find that hard to believe, if you play 2 essentially very similar sound signature.
After 30 sec. your brain will conclude its the same sound. I think that's plausible.
This effect concludes A/B is very difficult to set up in order to mitigate this effect.
If you listen to a song (4 min) if the difference is marginal, then your brain would conclude there's no difference
even though there might be. So the test is inclusive.

That's why graders make notes when they are scoring a competition anyway,
there's no way they would know who is a better contestant unless one shine through dramatically.

 

[typericey]

@smallricey interesting how your handle has "ricey" too, like mine.

My handle has a back story that goes all the way back to the '90s. First forum I joined was about cars and I thought about combining "Type R" and "ricey." I've used it in all other forums since then.

Apologies for the OT.

 

[SIY]

I'm not sure why you would find that hard to believe, if you play 2 essentially very similar sound signature.
After 30 sec. your brain will conclude its the same sound. I think that's plausible.
This effect concludes A/B is very difficult to set up in order to mitigate this effect.
If you listen to a song (4 min) if the difference is marginal, then your brain would conclude there's no difference
even though there might be. So the test is inclusive.

That's why graders make notes when they are scoring a competition anyway,
there's no way they would know who is a better contestant unless one shine through dramatically.

You can't handwave away the most basic controls.

If you can hear it without peeking, you can hear it. If you can't hear it without peeking, you can't hear it. It's not complicated.

 

[escksu]

What do you guys make of Steve?

I could be wrong. Didn't he once say in one of his videos, that measurements are meaningless?

I don't know about you lot. But I've noticed on every video review Steve always likes and praises the product. Hardly ever seen a negative review come out of him.

S.

Well, yes and no..but if i have to choose one, then i would say measurements are meaningless. Why? It because of us humans...

We are all different. Our preferences are different. So, ultimately, we need to listen to the audio created by all these equipment. If it doesnt sound good to the person listening, no amount of measurement will make it good.

Also, there are many who will say it doesnt sound any different. Your measurements clearly state that they are different. But the person say he cant hear any difference. So, it means one thing. Measurable differences does not necessary mean audible difference. There is standard for hearing test but its mostly to test if your ears are fine (hearing damage).

Well, its not just audio, its even more pronounce in food! Durian..lol.... Some love it, some hated it. No amount of measurement will change it.

 

[win]

Darko is the worst. At one point he compared two DACs, saying one had not only a wider soundstage, but taller too. Guess which one cost more

 

[escksu]

You can't handwave away the most basic controls.

If you can hear it without peeking, you can hear it. If you can't hear it without peaking, you can't hear it. It's not complicated.

Nope. I disagree. Because the brain doesnt work like a computer. Watching a live band playing is entirely differently different from just hearing it. If music is all about listening, why even bother to go concerts?

 

[SIY]

Nope. I disagree. Because the brain doesnt work like a computer. Watching a live band playing is entirely differently different from just hearing it. If music is all about listening, why even bother to go concerts?

Non sequitur and inapt analogy is not really any better than a handwave.

If you need to peek to hear a difference, you can't hear it. I'm sorry, but that's reality.

 

[Count De Money]

How can you say that on this site of all places?!

with the exception of this site and romy the cat etc

 

[smallricey]

You can't handwave away the most basic controls.

If you can hear it without peeking, you can hear it. If you can't hear it without peaking, you can't hear it. It's not complicated.

It's more like you can hear it without peaking. But not able to distinguish it in a test because the test is not set up correctly.

It's like you have a set up a none of above tests. I mean it's in the thread from this forum and there are other studies suggests it.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

I'm not sure why you would find that hard to believe, if you play 2 essentially very similar sound signature.
After 30 sec. your brain will conclude its the same sound. I think that's plausible.
This effect concludes A/B is very difficult to set up in order to mitigate this effect.
If you listen to a song (4 min) if the difference is marginal, then your brain would conclude there's no difference
even though there might be. So the test is inclusive.

That's why graders make notes when they are scoring a competition anyway,
there's no way they would know who is a better contestant unless one shine through dramatically.

except that you don't listen to a four minute track, and then stop and switch and listen to the 4 minute track again. You listen to various things you are familiar with and switch back and forth between A and B on the fly as you listen. It's instantaneous comparison and you can choose to focus in on whatever specific element you wish to. You think that little bell sound in the song is a give-away? OK, focus on that as you switch and see if there's a difference. Cymbals? Bass? whatever. Switch back and forth. If you can't hear a difference without looking to see what you are listening to, there's no difference worth pointing out in a subjective review. Not complicated at all in that sense.

 

[smallricey]

@smallricey interesting how your handle has "ricey" too, like mine.

My handle has a back story that goes all the way back to the '90s. First forum I joined was about cars and I thought about combining "Type R" and "ricey." I've used it in all other forums since then.

Apologies for the OT.

just being asian that's all lol

 

[smallricey]

except that you don't listen to a four minute track, and then stop and switch and listen to the 4 minute track again. You listen to various things you are familiar with and switch back and forth between A and B on the fly as you listen. It's instantaneous comparison and you can choose to focus in on whatever specific element you wish to. You think that little bell sound in the song is a give-away? OK, focus on that as you switch and see if there's a difference. Cymbals? Bass? whatever. Switch back and forth. If you can't hear a difference without looking to see what you are listening to, there's know difference worth pointing out in a subjective review. Not complicated at all in that sense.

Maybe that's why trained listener's result are more accurate.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

Maybe that's why trained listener's result are more accurate.

Of course. So what? We're talking about guys on youtube reviewing expensive audio gear making claims that they can now "hear deeper into the mix" than ever before! If they can't hear that magic depth in a blind test its utter BS.

 

[smallricey]

Of course. So what? We're talking about guys on youtube reviewing expensive audio gear making claims that they can now "hear deeper into the mix" than ever before! If they can't hear that magic depth in a blind test its utter BS.

What do you mean by so what? Your post just stated both youtuber review and blind tests are garbage unless it's done by trained listeners.
Which, shows the difficulty to set up a blind tests. How many certified trained listeners are out there?

So you have avg Joes who conduct blind tests and of course they can't hear the difference. Hence that blind test is not valid.

 

[SIY]

I’m just amused and astounded by the contortions folks go through to justify abandoning basic controls so they can play make believe.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

What do you mean by so what? Your post just stated both youtuber review and blind tests are garbage unless it's done by trained listeners.
Which, shows the difficulty to set up a blind tests. How many certified trained listeners are out there?

So you have avg Joes who conduct blind tests and of course they can't hear the difference. Hence that blind test is not valid.

LOL. What are you talking about? Those avg Joes you mention also claim they CAN hear differences when they listen to gear today and compare it to their memory of gear they listened to days or weeks ago!