Stereophile tested a Topping Pre90

[sq225917]

I can confirm that there's no audible difference when swapping my Paradise phono between topping pre90 and BPBP pre amp. But then it does have a 3 ohm output impedance. The bpbp is 10k input.

 

[conman]

That's odd. Although I let my Zinio subscription expire in favor of a Kindle subscription, I still get notified when Zinio has the new issue available. That happened last Saturday.

BTW, although I no longer have a Zinio subscription, all the issues I received when I did subscribe are still accessible.

Thanks again. Bizarrely I can see the latest edition for sale on zinio, but it's just not appearing in my library even though I only renewed my subscription 5 months ago. I'll wait a bit longer but maybe I have to file a support ticket.

EDIT: That's resolved the issue for me I've now got the Feb edition.

 

[conman]

Now I've finally read the review, it sure is sobering, and seems quite bold and will be confronting for the regular Stereophile reader. I expect heavy fallout from this from multiple sources. I suspect you thought long and hard about it first and discussed the repercussions at length. Good on you for publishing it.

 

[yyzsb]

As someone who had the pre90 for more than 6 months (with Ext90) along with a Benchmark LA4 preamp and a CODA 07x preamp in the same system at the same time. I had some interesting experiences with the pre90.

I bought the pre90 based on Sandu's review and comparison to his reference Benchmark HPA4. I find Sandu an excellent reviewer matching my listening tastes.

Topping Pre90 + Ext90 Review - Pre-amp my Power-amp! - Soundnews

My Video Review: Hey folks. Today I will be writing about the biggest unknowns of the Hi-Fi world: Preamps! But first, we should learn about them, how they really work and if you need one or not. Nowadays, almost nobody is discussing about them, yet we have them in most audio sources of today such …

soundnews.net

I was hoping that the pre90 would replace my Benchmark HPA4 preamp in my office system. So, I sold the HPA4 to fund another purchase and bought the pre90 into the office. At that time, I was temporally using the Benchmark AHB2 monos in the office. The pre90 and the AHB2 were a killer combo. It sounded just as good as the HPA4 and AHB2. The AHB2 were destined for the Livingroom system and in came a few amps into the office.

- D-Sonic M3a 800s stereo amp
- CODA #8
- LSA Voyager 350 GAN (modded by EVS)
- Parasound A21+
- KRELL Duo 175XD

The pre90 was tried with all these amps, except the KRELL, since I sold the pre90 last week before the KRELL came in. The pre90 had volume issues with all of these amps except the Parasound A21+. The volume was too high, it never went to total silence, there was not much effect on the volume level when it was changed. It felt like the volume was too hot and messed up with all these amps I tested with.

I do believe I tried different gain levels with the preamp. I also tried the pre90 with RCA and/or XLR outputs. The pre90 with the Parasound A21+ did not have these problems and sounded excellent. The AHB2 + sub + pre90 was also excellent. I sold the pre90 because it failed at running the amps I wanted to use in the office. I ended up getting the Benchmark LA4. I tested the HPA4/LA4 with all of the amps listed above and the BM gear worked flawlessly. The Benchmark also has more features and an easier to use interface design.

BTW - my final systems are an all-Benchmark stack in the living room and the office is CODA 07x preamp with the CODA #8 and KRELL Duo 175XD both connected to the CODA 07x at the same time. The pre90 could not make this cut. The frustrating interface of the pre90 vs the LA4 made me ditch the pre90 for the LA4 in the Livingroom system.

 

[DHT 845]

I just listened to Topping Pre90 driving active 3-way speakers KRK Rokit RP10-3 G4, the source was Topping D70s mqa. Analog cables all balanced XLR Klotz MC5000, coax wireworld from D70s to source (audiolab 6000CDT transport). KRK's DSP set just on straight, 0dB input level. The sound was great, woooow. Smooth and clean sound, with touch of warmth (kevlar drivers), great midrange (smooth, calm, superb vocals, merit also of D70s), hights clean slighly timid, nice punchy bass. Killer sound for the money (without any adjustments with speakers EQ settings, what would be with proper room correction?...)

These KRK's represent very high performance to price ratio IMO and superb match with Pre90 !

 

[firedog]

The measurements are similar to what our host did. The numbers don't lie.

It was compared to a Pass XP-32 ($17.5k).
Subjectively they liked it:
'transparent and noise free'
'outstanding performance'
The Pre90 is 'more honest'
The XP 'adds something'
He said the XP 'simply sounds better, whatever that means'.

It sounds like since they can't find a fault and blame it on the numbers they take the 'subjective' way out.
I have no issue with that, it's a business, they can't say a $600 device > $17,500 one. It would poke a whole thru the high end industry and may impact advertising revenue. It's business.

But if you read between the lines:
~ equal in SQ performance
3.5% of the cost

I think that's a little too cynical. They compared the two and the Topping was said to equal the Pass, and be superior in some ways. He implied that the Pass is a bit colored and he sort of liked the added color.

But in short, the review was extremely favorable and he basically said it was as good as the Pass. He bought 3 of them for multichannel and is keeping them in his system.

JA said it was one of the quitest pre's he'd ever measued.

If they were trying to protect "the industry" they wouldn't have printed a comparison where the Pass isn't declared "the winner".
In the comments, KR sais the Topping is a "full frontal attack on one's biases".
I don't think the meaning could be missed by anyone.

 

[Ingenieur]

I think that's a little too cynical. They compared the two and the Topping was said to equal the Pass, and be superior in some ways. He implied that the Pass is a bit colored and he sort of liked the added color.

But in short, the review was extremely favorable and he basically said it was as good as the Pass. He bought 3 of them for multichannel and is keeping them in his system.

JA said it was one of the quitest pre's he'd ever measued.

If they were trying to protect "the industry" they wouldn't have printed a comparison where the Pass isn't declared "the winner".
In the comments, KR sais the Topping is a "full frontal attack on one's biases".
I don't think the meaning could be missed by anyone.

One man's cynical is another's objective.

If they wanted a true comparison omit the 'simply sounds better' and print side by side measurement and allow the reader to decide. But for those whom can't interpret the data feed them opinion.

Just looked at the issue again. >100 ads on 80 pages. Every other page.
As I said, I have no issue with that. Been a subscriber since the early 70's, I enjoy it and look forward to getting it. You made it negative, 'cynical', I stated the obvious.

It sounds like since they can't find a fault and blame it on the numbers they take the 'subjective' way out.
I have no issue with that, it's a business, they can't say a $600 device > $17,500 one. It would poke a whole thru the high end industry and may impact advertising revenue. It's business.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Topping Pre90 line preamplifier

There has not been a conventional preamplifier in my main audio system for quite a while, because no multichannel preamp is available that's of high enough quality. Instead, I use the high-precision digital volume controls in my players and DACs and choose sources with a relay-based multichannel...

www.stereophile.com

Here is Kal's review finally online. Quite a good showing.

 

[Blumlein 88]

@Kal Rubinson
You may not have the preamps now with the lag in publishing from reviewing. I think a good way to see if one is adding something or not is a bypass test. Have the Pass feed the Topping and switch it in or out of circuit. Does the Topping sound like the Pass if the Pass is feeding it? Then the 'better sound' of the Pass is a coloration. Reverse positions, does the Topping in the circuit remove some of the quality of the Pass or can you not hear its effect. That will tell if the Topping is missing something.

 

[DHT 845]

Reverse positions, does the Topping in the circuit remove some of the quality of the Pass or can you not hear its effect. That will tell if the Topping is missing something.

Good point. Topping pre90 remove nothing. It preserves sonic qualities of the source. If sb has a tube DAC or other DAC he likes, Pre90 will pass its sonic character without any loss. I never experienced such a preamp before. I heard top preamps from Pass Labs, Accuphase, original Audio Note Japan M7 Kondo, many Audio Research Reference from the past, Sonic Frontiers Line 3, MBL 6010 D, Burmester 808 and other famous preamps. I would say that rather some of these add their flavour (although some very little). Pre90 is a game changer in terms of neutrality IMO.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

@Kal Rubinson
You may not have the preamps now with the lag in publishing from reviewing. I think a good way to see if one is adding something or not is a bypass test. Have the Pass feed the Topping and switch it in or out of circuit. Does the Topping sound like the Pass if the Pass is feeding it? Then the 'better sound' of the Pass is a coloration. Reverse positions, does the Topping in the circuit remove some of the quality of the Pass or can you not hear its effect. That will tell if the Topping is missing something.

I did that. The fly in the ointment is the general presumption that bypass is perfect. However, that depends on the rest of the signal path in the particular system. Almost every decent preamp (including the Pre90 and the Pass) that I've tried improves the bass, just a bit, compared with bypass if the preamp is in its "classic" position on the system rack, getting short (3') interconnections from the DAC and feeding the long (25') cables to the power amps on the other side of the room.

OTOH, as described in the first paragraph at the beginning of the section "Listening," if I inserted at the power amp end of the 25' interconnects, the comparison with bypass revealed no audible differences. Unfortunately, it was not possible to install the 3-chassis, 62.5lb. in that position.

My inference is that the Pre90 is audibly transparent but that the signal in the bypass arrangements are marginally compromised by limitations in the ability of my DACs to drive the amps via the 25' cables. With the Pre90 or the Pass at the proximal end of the long run, either will drive the output line better. With the Pre90 at the distal end, it is transparently transmitting that marginally compromised signal. And that's why I bought three Pre90s for my 6 channel setup. (I probably didn't need all three because the power amp for SL/SR channels is in the same equipment rack as the DACs with 3' balanced interconnects.)

 

[yyzsb]

The LA4 and pre90 are identical (to my ears) with regards to neutrality. Though the LA4 is built to a much higher standard, better features, and also sounds perfect with every amp I used it with. I also think the LA4 is better than my CODA 07x which costs $6.5K and has been compared favorably to PASS preamps. The 07x sounds great but it is not neutral, but that warmth is needed sometimes.

The LA4 or pre90 are not ideal (fatiguing) if your speakers or other components are on the brighter side, such as the incredible RAAL SR1a headphones. The 07x is incredible in such as setup.

 

[andrew]

Almost all reviews will appear online at www.stereophile.com However, they appear in print first for our subscribers and there is a delay before the online posting.

Good read and added “in my salad days” to my vocabulary. How are the 3 x Pre90 working as a remote controlled multi-channel volume control? Are the units staying ‘in sync’?

(I’m controlling volume at the digital source which is before both digital EQ/XO and D/A conversion so have been on the lookout for a balanced multichannel volume control for quite some time)

 

[escksu]

Topping Pre90 line preamplifier

There has not been a conventional preamplifier in my main audio system for quite a while, because no multichannel preamp is available that's of high enough quality. Instead, I use the high-precision digital volume controls in my players and DACs and choose sources with a relay-based multichannel...

www.stereophile.com

Here is Kal's review finally online. Quite a good showing.

Thanks for the link! Just read it and i have to say the pre-90 did very well esp. when its price is just a fraction of the XP32. His last sentence says it all: its a great bargain!

 

[Blumlein 88]

Thanks for the link! Just read it and i have to say the pre-90 did very well esp. when its price is just a fraction of the XP32. His last sentence says it all: its a great bargain!

Even more, Kal purchased 3 of them for use in his multi-channel setup.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Good read and added “in my salad days” to my vocabulary. How are the 3 x Pre90 working as a remote controlled multi-channel volume control? Are the units staying ‘in sync’?

To be frank, I have not (yet) opted to try to synch them because I use them as active line drivers with adjustable gain. The volume control in my system is elsewhere.

 

[kongwee]

BTW - my final systems are an all-Benchmark stack in the living room and the office is CODA 07x preamp with the CODA #8 and KRELL Duo 175XD both connected to the CODA 07x at the same time. The pre90 could not make this cut. The frustrating interface of the pre90 vs the LA4 made me ditch the pre90 for the LA4 in the Livingroom system.

I alway said if possible listen to hi fi show or shop. Graphs in ASR is not enough. My country is small 2 hour travel end to end. I can audit lots of stuff in single day. Even a mall that house most of the big brands. Of course, outside my country, the convenience is not there.

 

[lordhumungous]

I tried the Topping Pre90 with the RME ADI-2 DAC FS. The Pre90 colors the sound compared to the crystal clear sound of using the RME ADI-2 alone. With the Pre90 in the chain the sound is a bit more harsh and offers less clarity. I won't be using the Pre90 with this setup. Those that think the Pre90 doesn't add color should compare it directly with the RME ADI-2 DAC FS. The difference is amazingly easy to notice.

I don't notice this

 

[Veri]

The difference is amazingly easy to notice.

Heard that one before...

 

[Cbdb2]

Preamp? I don't need no stinkin preamp. Especially one with one input and no phone preamp. My DAC has an analogue thru, enough gain and a volume control, what else do these preamps do? Why would I (or anyone else) spend $17k on a switch and a buffered volume control?