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Stereophile tested a Topping Pre90

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Ingenieur

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The measurements are similar to what our host did. The numbers don't lie.

It was compared to a Pass XP-32 ($17.5k).
Subjectively they liked it:
'transparent and noise free'
'outstanding performance'
The Pre90 is 'more honest'
The XP 'adds something'
He said the XP 'simply sounds better, whatever that means'.

It sounds like since they can't find a fault and blame it on the numbers they take the 'subjective' way out.
I have no issue with that, it's a business, they can't say a $600 device > $17,500 one. It would poke a whole thru the high end industry and may impact advertising revenue. It's business.

But if you read between the lines:
~ equal in SQ performance
3.5% of the cost
 

sarumbear

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The Pre90 is 'more honest'
The XP 'adds something'
He said the XP 'simply sounds better, whatever that means'.
He doesn’t even know the language. If something is honest, it can’t have something added.

I guess XP sounds better to him as it adds something to the sound? I wonder what that can be? Distortion, noise, gimmick, Dollars?
 

jsrtheta

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He doesn’t even know the language. If something is honest, it can’t have something added.

I guess XP sounds better to him as it adds something to the sound? I wonder what that can be? Distortion, noise, gimmick, Dollars?
Or they sound the same. Doesn't sound like a rigorous "protocol".
 

Galliardist

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He doesn’t even know the language. If something is honest, it can’t have something added.

I guess XP sounds better to him as it adds something to the sound? I wonder what that can be? Distortion, noise, gimmick, Dollars?
The Topping is described as "honest" while the XP was dishonest "adds something". The English is correct.

WIthout a measurement that shows that the XP is audibly different in the system concerned (and that's another can of worms), or a proper blind test to determine that, this is just another sighted subjective comparison. Do with it what you will...
 

dlaloum

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There is nothing in the measurements of the XP-32 to suggest it is anything other than fully transparent.
Sure - but if as claimed, they sound different, then something that is NOT being measured is different (given that the measurements are not picking up the difference) - assuming of course, that it isn't confirmation bias...
 

777

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Let's be serious, Topping just put some chips on the board. The credit goes to those who created the chips. Topping didn't invent anything in audio. It is absolutely normal to be cheap at what components it has in it. Topping, SMSL and others like them are just a few computer engineers and that's it. They probably weren't able to make a motherboard and reoriented themselves to audio because it's easier to stick 3 chips. Well, does Topping compare to Nelson Pass? Be seriosus... I bought four Topping products and two SMSL because are cheap and for me are enough but that doesn't stop me from seeing who's Topping and who's Nelson Pass ;)
 

DSJR

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He doesn’t even know the language. If something is honest, it can’t have something added.

I guess XP sounds better to him as it adds something to the sound? I wonder what that can be? Distortion, noise, gimmick, Dollars?
Absolutely!

Thing is, the high end market cannot be undermined by a 'cheap' little box that out-performs exalted heavily built high profit confections and which makes no money for a dealer network. In the UK, this market is ageing with the now freshly retired people with bulging pension pots keeping it going I think, but no idea on the rest of the world, where expensive deluxe headphones seems to be it these days...
 
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voodooless

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It sounds like since they can't find a fault and blame it on the numbers they take the 'subjective' way out.
I have no issue with that, it's a business, they can't say a $600 device > $17,500 one. It would poke a whole thru the high end industry and may impact advertising revenue. It's business.
But they can call things "more honest", how ironic :facepalm:
 

xaviescacs

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Let's be serious, Topping just put some chips on the board. The credit goes to those who created the chips. Topping didn't invent anything in audio. It is absolutely normal to be cheap at what components it has in it. Topping, SMSL and others like them are just a few computer engineers and that's it. They probably weren't able to make a motherboard and reoriented themselves to audio because it's easier to stick 3 chips. Well, does Topping compare to Nelson Pass? Be seriosus... I bought four Topping products and two SMSL because are cheap and for me are enough but that doesn't stop me from seeing who's Topping and who's Nelson Pass ;)
Pass produces/manufacters all the components used in their equipment? Now I understand the price tag...
 

777

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No, their engineering is more modern and better.
They just use the computer technology, nothing more, nothing special. Anyone can do that. There is any special thing ? Yes, the price, only the price. The price is their advantage. Look at Okto. Two diy-ers mens, or maybe only one, can achieve the same level of performance like Topping. There isn't anything special, open the chassis and look inside.
 

777

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Pass produces/manufacters all the components used in their equipment? Now I understand the price tag...
Pass use discrete components... it's another story. Ok, the price is very high. I did not buy Pass, I bought Topping but... Haval SUV isn't Mercedes GLE SUV :)
 

voodooless

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They just use the computer technology, nothing more, nothing special. Anyone can do that.
And yet, audio companies, in general, failed to deliver top-notch objective performance for decades. Good was good enough, and the rest was make-belief. Now that consumers started measuring and some Chinese companies started actually engineering top performing audio gear for little money, it is suddenly nothing special, anyone can do it? Why wasn't it done then?
 

SIY

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They just use the computer technology, nothing more, nothing special. Anyone can do that.
And yet, they don't, not as well and not as cheaply.

Perhaps it's not as simple as you make it out to be. :cool:
 

FrantzM

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They just use the computer technology, nothing more, nothing special. Anyone can do that. There is any special thing ? Yes, the price, only the price. The price is their advantage. Look at Okto. Two diy-ers mens, or maybe only one, can achieve the same level of performance like Topping. There isn't anything special, open the chassis and look inside.
I am in the engineering field and know from 40 years of experience that you don't "just" design and produce things right.
While the knowledge is there and for the taking ...Not "anyone can do it". Good engineering and good production techniques are not a given and so easy to come by.
Coming back to the Stereophile review, it helped that it came from ( one of ? )their most honest reviewer: Kal Rubinson...
 

777

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So far no very good measuring devices have been requested but if there is a demand they will be made. Don't forget that in the 70's and 80's devices were made that measured very well but were not well received by the public. I repeat, nowadays Topping and the rest use computer industry, they did not develop any special technology. More recently, they have begun to include audiophile components like golden capacitors and Noratel transformers :) Topping, SMSL, Gustard and others are ok, very ok, but nothing more.
 
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