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SPL of two combined speakers

I dont think it is that bad as you say. for me looks ok. only bigger problem is at 10k and a bit at 5k, I think you just need to adjust mic position to get this a bit better or speaker, easier with the mic first. everything else can be done with preference EQ. I recommend that you dont average anything, smoothing 1/12oct is workable if room not that good, but helps to p… off yourself when seeing things without averages sometimes, to force yourself to make it better, you need to hate this as a trigger to make it better :)
The issue is the speaker placement. Not optimal, but what I have to work with in my office.

KEFs.jpg
 
Aha, there’s a lot of terms like a dictionary!

I first thought it was only a single article, thank you so much for insisting :)

here is more “wood”, when thinking about amps in these pictures it is normal class D hypex 500W rated amp, you can check their website if you want to dig documents and parameters for amps as it gives you a perspective what can be achieved. in most cases you wont even get those 500W. if you look at distortion, efficiency at various loads you can see there will be not much more than half the power out of if. deeper in woods more “wood”. so watts also is a type of marketing :) PSU watts should also be there
 

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here is more “wood”, when thinking about amps in these pictures it is normal class D hypex 500W rated amp, you can check their website if you want to dig documents and parameters for amps as it gives you a perspective what can be achieved. in most cases you wont even get those 500W. if you look at distortion, efficiency at various loads you can see there will be not much more than half the power out of if. deeper in woods more “wood”. so watts also is a type of marketing :) PSU watts should also be there
I knew that, perhaps not as detailed.

Noise (mostly coming from recording quantization errors), tends to diminish with amplitude whereas THD increases. Crossing points or optimum SINAD occurs at a certain levels depending on the gain stage values.

Is one of the reasons I bought my Genelecs G Three instead of 8030C: they have 10dB less sensitivity, so I can use hotter signals and less volume to reach the desired loudness. This decreases THD while keeping noise floor down.

100 dB SPL (average, because I calculated from 2 Vrms max of my DAC and not from peak voltages) are more than enough to me
 
I recommend that you dont average anything
I averaged the Left and Right channels to show the average amount of gain I am getting with two speakers vs. one - it varies with respect to frequency in my setup. Also, the measurements I used are without EQ for room correction applied. I have room correction applied when actually listening.

What are the conditions of your test? Speaker placement, microphone placement, room conditions, etc.?

Here are the responses without averaging:

Room Response 1 vs 2.png
 
I averaged the Left and Right channels to show the average amount of gain I am getting with two speakers vs. one - it varies with respect to frequency in my setup. Also, the measurements I used are without EQ for room correction applied. I have room correction applied when actually listening.

What are the conditions of your test? Speaker placement, microphone placement, room conditions, etc.?

Here are the responses without averaging:

View attachment 398129
I’m surprised to see L+R values below individual ones on the 4 to 7k region, why is it? Phase cancellation due to differences in distance between mic and each speakers? It is on the order of centimeters…
 
Phase cancellation due to differences in distance between mic and each speakers?
That is my guess. I haven't looked into it any further than taking the measurements. If I moved the speakers into a larger room, away from the walls, I probably could get more insight into the effect. Nonetheless, the speakers are positioned where they will remain.

The reason that I actually made the measurements probably is worth noting. I put together a spreadsheet, linked below, for people to calculate how much amplifier power they would need for their system. I always had assumed that adding a second speaker adds +6dB to the total SPL, which Viesturs' data confirms. However, various audio websites I visited were using a factor of +3dB. That got my curiosity going, which is why I measured my setup. I ended up using +3dB in the spreadsheet for two speakers (actually, a "10" multiplier rather than "20" for the log calculation), and added notes indicating that it could be as high as +6dB for two speakers.

 
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That is my guess. I haven't looked into it any further than taking the measurements. If I moved the speakers into a larger room, away from the walls, I probably could get more insight into the effect. Nonetheless, the speakers are positioned where they will remain.

The reason that I actually made the measurements probably is worth noting. I put together a spreadsheet, linked below, for people to calculate how much amplifier power they would need for their system. I always had assumed that adding a second speaker adds +6dB to the total SPL, which your data confirms. However, various audio websites I visited were using a factor of +3dB. That got my curiosity going, which is why I measured my setup. I ended up using +3dB in the spreadsheet for two speakers (actually, a "10" multiplier rather than "20" for the log calculation), and added notes indicating that it could be as high as +6dB for two speakers.

Maybe what has been signaled before, depending on congruence of the speakers and frequencies, you can obtain a direct sum (+6 dB) or an average value (+3dB). Actually I’m waiting for a second G Three, so I will verify in my room.

I observe you use 2 volts RMS output, I should be one of the rare listeners who should reduce preamp output to 500 mV rms to keep my digital volume in healthy zones…
 
That is my guess. I haven't looked into it any further than taking the measurements. If I moved the speakers into a larger room, away from the walls, I probably could get more insight into the effect. Nonetheless, the speakers are positioned where they will remain.

The reason that I actually made the measurements probably is worth noting. I put together a spreadsheet, linked below, for people to calculate how much amplifier power they would need for their system. I always had assumed that adding a second speaker adds +6dB to the total SPL, which Viesturs' data confirms. However, various audio websites I visited were using a factor of +3dB. That got my curiosity going, which is why I measured my setup. I ended up using +3dB in the spreadsheet for two speakers (actually, a "10" multiplier rather than "20" for the log calculation), and added notes indicating that it could be as high as +6dB for two speakers.

Oups, sorry, another question: you wrote “add 15-20 dB for transients…” aside on the max SPL. So if I listen on a 75 dB average, should take into account my system can reach 95 dB to don’t clip on transients?
 
Oups, sorry, another question: you wrote “add 15-20 dB for transients…” aside on the max SPL. So if I listen on a 75 dB average, should take into account my system can reach 95 dB to don’t clip on transients?
Yes. 20dB probably is a good number.
 
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I knew that, perhaps not as detailed.

Noise (mostly coming from recording quantization errors), tends to diminish with amplitude whereas THD increases. Crossing points or optimum SINAD occurs at a certain levels depending on the gain stage values.

Is one of the reasons I bought my Genelecs G Three instead of 8030C: they have 10dB less sensitivity, so I can use hotter signals and less volume to reach the desired loudness. This decreases THD while keeping noise floor down.

100 dB SPL (average, because I calculated from 2 Vrms max of my DAC and not from peak voltages) are more than enough to me

well actually proper way how to set max level is when you have monitor controller or gain knob at max with minimum possible distortion from amp and loudspeaker. volume control is attenuator, when it is not engaged no problem.. roughly speaking attenuator does its crap.. no clipping allowed ;) many many ways how to deal with levels, input and output should never clip that is first thing, when signal is clipping you cook loudspeaker as it wants to dissipate more with cut sines… long story
 
well actually proper way how to set max level is when you have monitor controller or gain knob at max with minimum possible distortion from amp and loudspeaker. volume control is attenuator, when it is not engaged no problem.. roughly speaking attenuator does its crap.. no clipping allowed ;) many many ways how to deal with levels, input and output should never clip that is first thing, when signal is clipping you cook loudspeaker as it wants to dissipate more with cut sines… long story
Well, actually I’m trying to adjust the different possibilities of digital, preamp output and gain input. By ear, the chain sounds better with digital volume close to the max or in the last third (I don’t have dBFS indicator on the streamer-DAC, only percentages), output level set to 500 mVrms and gain on 96 dB @ 1Vrms.

I suppose impossible to clip at output since at 0 dBFS all my music sounds good when setting my monitor 10 dB less sensitivity (ensuring I cannot go over 90 dB in worst of cases) and output at max 0,5 Vrms will be around 96 dB peak, which by technical specifications is the longterm max SPL of the speaker
 
Well, actually I’m trying to adjust the different possibilities of digital, preamp output and gain input. By ear, the chain sounds better with digital volume close to the max or in the last third (I don’t have dBFS indicator on the streamer-DAC, only percentages), output level set to 500 mVrms and gain on 96 dB @ 1Vrms.

I suppose impossible to clip at output since at 0 dBFS all my music sounds good when setting my monitor 10 dB less sensitivity (ensuring I cannot go over 90 dB in worst of cases) and output at max 0,5 Vrms will be around 96 dB peak, which by technical specifications is the longterm max SPL of the speaker


to see clipping you need an oscilloscope and to see if for any levels peaks are not cut off anywhere in signal path.. simple as that. 0dBFS is just full scale signal if you have for example AES output from streamer to speaker AES input without vol control thats full scale, if you say DAC it is not full scale signal to speaker just some max output analog value to speaker amp input. I dont know overloading capabilities of you electronics so I cannot tell how much speaker amp input can take before going to crap. definitelly max output PEAK from DAC not exceed PEAK input in speaker electronics, better have headroom a bit because can be that speaker electronics cannot handle input stated in glamour specs. Oscilloscope is a good thing to be 99% sure what is going on.
 
to see clipping you need an oscilloscope and to see if for any levels peaks are not cut off anywhere in signal path.. simple as that. 0dBFS is just full scale signal if you have for example AES output from streamer to speaker AES input without vol control thats full scale, if you say DAC it is not full scale signal to speaker just some max output analog value to speaker amp input. I dont know overloading capabilities of you electronics so I cannot tell how much speaker amp input can take before going to crap. definitelly max output PEAK from DAC not exceed PEAK input in speaker electronics, better have headroom a bit because can be that speaker electronics cannot handle input stated in glamour specs. Oscilloscope is a good thing to be 99% sure what is going on.
How complicated!

My speaker has two sensitivity options, and my streamer preamp has 3 or 4 output settings: this reduces the gain adjustments to discrete values and can be judged by ear:

1- Input gain at 86 dB @ 1V: streamer output should be at 2Vrms and it sounds “muffed” even at near 0 dBFS (since the G3 has also XLR inputs I guess this maybe the option to compensate the extra 4 Vrms usual output in balanced DACs)

2- Input gain at 96 dB @ 1V and streamer output at 2 Vrms: sounds hyper brilliant and mid-highs are distorted, digital volume should be at 25-40% max

3- Same input but streamer output at 1Vrms: better sound, still not so good in distortion at mid-highs, unclear bass region: digital volume between 50-70%

4-Same sensitivity but streamer at 0,5 Vrms: satisfactory sound, all regions without audible distortion to my ears, clear mids and bass, highs are smoother. Digital volume between 70-90% of scale.

Other options include 800mV or 200mV output, 800 is still so high and 200mV too low

It seems that my signal chain works better at high digital volumes, low preamp output and by default sensitivity amp setting
 
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How complicated!

My speaker has two sensitivity options, and my streamer preamp has 3 or 4 output settings: this reduces the gain adjustments to discrete values and can be judged by ear:

1- Input gain at 86 dB @ 1V: streamer output should be at 2Vrms and it sounds “muffed” even at near 0 dBFS (since the G3 has also XLR inputs I guess this maybe the option to compensate the extra 4 Vrms usual output in balanced DACs)

2- Input gain at 96 dB @ 1V and streamer output at 2 Vrms: sounds hyper brilliant and mid-highs are distorted, digital volume should be at 25-40% max

3- Same input but streamer output at 1Vrms: better sound, still not so good in distortion at mid-highs, unclear bass region: digital volume between 50-70%

4-Same sensitivity but streamer at 0,5 Vrms: satisfactory sound, all regions without audible distortion to my ears, clear mids and bass, highs are smoother. Digital volume between 70-90% of scale.

Other options include 800mV or 200mV output, 800 is still so high and 200mV too low

It seems that my signal chain works better at high digital volumes, low preamp output and by default sensitivity amp setting

 
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