How Many AMPS do My speakers need for full resolution maximum detail ?

[Earwax]

I`m getting no volume loss in my rears or so it appears to my very human ears cross wired to my average ish brain :/

 

[JustJones]

Is it the small gauge speaker wire giving much less resistance that gives the rich clear sound or am misunderstanding the whole prosses ?

Flip it around the larger the gauge the less the resistance.

 

[Earwax]

WATTS, not Amps. Watts is the result of Amps X Volts. It is the measurement of work that WAS achieved.

BTW You said IF the main speakers were rated at 140 watts of continuous power, that is not peak or over short periods of time that is continuous.
Speakers depending on the manufacturer can be say 140 watts of continuous power it doesn't mean they are correct, although some speaker companies
are VERY conservative.

If your amps are rated @ 50/40 watts RMS that inference implies it is continuous. 50 to the mains and 40 to the surround and center.

The problem with not enough power is if the amps clip, where if they are overpowered you turn it down and BOTH will blow a speaker. fuses or both.

Normally most amps have some sort of heat protection. Thermal shutdown vs inrush peaks that usually blow FB fuses vs overheating and shutting down.

That HK likely has protection, check the manual and see if it has both. Both are for amp protection Some amps actually have speaker protection
and it is not in every amp by any means. Adcoms GFA 565s were notorious sub/bass speaker killers.

As for speaker wire size use copper and 12-14-16 gage or double the run if your going to run 24/22 gage. That is pretty small and you're not saving anything
if you just use good zip cord from PE, Ali, Amazon at 30-50.00 for 250-500 ft. Do NOT use aluminum or aluminum clad cabling anywhere in your system.
Your asking for trouble.

Page 54 for clarification of all specs on the HK AVR 140 probably easier than back and forth sharing.

50 watts continuous power for Fronts in Stereo mode.

https://support.harmankardon.com/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-masterCatalog_Harman/default/dw26d5dd8c/pdfs/AVR%20140%5EHK%5Eom%5E%5E%5E%5E.pdf

 

[Earwax]

24 AWG wired is rated for 3.5 amps.

Resistance of 28.3 ohms for a 1000 feet.

That appears very minimal Resistance but that's why I`m here asking the Audio Pro`s with factual technical explanations.

24 AWG can easily handle the to heat my rears they will never get close to that amount of heat not even my very Large book shelf speakers especially with only 50W max going to them.

 

[JustJones]

12 awg is 1.588 Ohms for 1000 feet.
Larger the AWG , less the resistance

Electrical Wire Gauges

 

[Earwax]

At what ohm rating does it become audibly noticeable in speakers ?

 

[Earwax]

Found this online it should get this moving in the right direction as DVD Doug mentioned Dampening having great impact..

Quote : Higher Ohms means more damping power the amp has over your headphones = better quality. Lower Ohms means easier to drive BUT also more sensitive to amp quality ?

 

[Earwax]

24 AWG wired is rated for 3.5 amps.

Resistance of 28.3 ohms for a 1000 feet.

That appears very minimal Resistance but that's why I`m here asking the Audio Pro`s with factual technical explanations.

24 AWG can easily handle the to heat my rears they will never get close to that amount of heat not even my very Large book shelf speakers especially with only 50W max going to them.

My HD 600 headphones are 300 Ohms clear as Glass cleaned with vinegar and richer than Trump :O

 

[Chrispy]

Found this online it should get this moving in the right direction as DVD Doug mentioned Dampening having great impact..

Quote : Higher Ohms means more damping power the amp has over your headphones = better quality. Lower Ohms means easier to drive BUT also more sensitive to amp quality ?

Did he say "great impact"? He said "The amplifier's actual output impedance is usually a fraction of an Ohm. You won't find a spec for it but sometimes you'll see a spec for damping factor which is the ratio of load impedance to the amplifier's output impedance" and "Nonsense. A higher damping factor can give you more "control" but with solid state amplifiers it's not an issue. Some tube amps have a poor damping factor.". Not exactly great impact....with solid state amps such as yours generally just not a concern.

ps If you want to dig into damping factor, might look into these https://duckduckgo.com/?q=damping+factor+site:audiosciencereview.com&atb=v452-1&ia=web

 

[Scrivs]

My HD 600 headphones are 300 Ohms clear as Glass cleaned with vinegar and richer than Trump :O

I'm starting to think that you're a fan of dragging artificial lures...

 

[Earwax]

Did he say "great impact"? He said "The amplifier's actual output impedance is usually a fraction of an Ohm. You won't find a spec for it but sometimes you'll see a spec for damping factor which is the ratio of load impedance to the amplifier's output impedance" and ....

Chrispy you must have missed it, keep reading further down his post.

Here is a qoute of what DVD Doug stated :

A higher damping factor can give you more "control" but with solid state amplifiers it's not an issue. Some tube amps have a poor damping factor.

 

[Nothingness]

As for speaker wire size use copper and 12-14-16 gage or double the run if your going to run 24/22 gage. That is pretty small and you're not saving anything
if you just use good zip cord from PE, Ali, Amazon at 30-50.00 for 250-500 ft. Do NOT use aluminum or aluminum clad cabling anywhere in your system.
Your asking for trouble.

I hope I’m not hijacking the OP’s thread (I had the same question a few weeks ago). But may I ask why aluminum or aluminum-clad cabling isn’t recommended for use in a system?

My cable appears to be aluminum or an aluminum alloy, with CM/CL3 (UL)/C(UL) printed on it. Would this be suitable for my system?

 

[JustJones]

I hope I’m not hijacking the OP’s thread (I had the same question a few weeks ago). But may I ask why aluminum or aluminum-clad cabling isn’t recommended for use in a system?

My cable appears to be aluminum or an aluminum alloy, with CM/CL3 (UL)/C(UL) printed on it. Would this be suitable for my system?

View attachment 440876

Most likely it's CCA which might be fine in your system or not since I have no idea what your system consists of or how long a run you're planning on. Here's a thread on OFC or simple copper wire vs. Copper Clad Aluminum. I doubt it's pure Aluminum.

Speaker wire, CCA vs OFC

Quick question about wires and signal transmission. If I understand correctly, audio signal is AC and travels on the surface of the wire. I assume that the same principle as antenna would apply here. In that case, why is there such an obsession with the Origen free copper? Isn’t the diameter of...

audiosciencereview.com

CM/CL3 are use ratings having to do with electrical codes.

Understanding Cable Jacket Ratings: CL, CM, CMR and CMP

The cable jacket ratings used for cabling runs in homes and buildings, like CL, CL2, CM, CMR and CMP, aren’t as confusing as they might seem.

www.cmple.com

 

[Earwax]

This is also worth mentioning, I tried out using pure copper data streaming ethernet wire that was soild copper wire about 22 AWG in my previous vehicle as it was free and had lots of it.

I was able to have wires exposed so it was no hassle to swap different wires.

Alpine deck Alpine amp Alpine component speakers...

The solid wire was very noticeable change, it wasn't for me but sounded ok for electronic techno music that I have very little of only few songs.

Are there any Hazards using soild 22 awg versus fine stranded 22 AWG ?

 

[Earwax]

I`ve edited my initial post to clear things up Watts divided by Volts = Amps. That said the flow of electrons is measured using amps One ampere is 6.24 BILLION electrons per second passing through a circuit.

My mistake it's actually 6.24 Quintillion.

For reference that is 18 zeros so double the zeros of 1 billion...

 

[OldHvyMec]

Are there any Hazards using soild 22 awg versus fine stranded 22 AWG ?

Flexibility.

The fact is, there is very little cost difference between # 12 and 22 and ofc/occ. Good insulation pays for itself. Vibration in OTR cars/trucks and sharp
corners, pieces of metal, and general construction, bigger is easier to keep from chaffing or cutting while installing.

After 50+ years of stringing wire up and down equipment, through equipment, and around equipment, I'll spend an extra buck for the problems smaller
cabling can cause vs larger cable that usually you won't have behind the inadvertent hard pull or next to a sharp corner or going through a firewall with no
grommet/or silicone to secure it.

Simple fact, it's easier to stay out of trouble, than get out of trouble.

Regards

 

[Chrispy]

Chrispy you must have missed it, keep reading further down his post.

Here is a qoute of what DVD Doug stated :

A higher damping factor can give you more "control" but with solid state amplifiers it's not an issue. Some tube amps have a poor damping factor.

Actually meant to include that. Still, not much to consider.

 

[Nothingness]

Most likely it's CCA which might be fine in your system or not since I have no idea what your system consists of or how long a run you're planning on. Here's a thread on OFC or simple copper wire vs. Copper Clad Aluminum. I doubt it's pure Aluminum.

Speaker wire, CCA vs OFC

Quick question about wires and signal transmission. If I understand correctly, audio signal is AC and travels on the surface of the wire. I assume that the same principle as antenna would apply here. In that case, why is there such an obsession with the Origen free copper? Isn’t the diameter of...

audiosciencereview.com

CM/CL3 are use ratings having to do with electrical codes.

Understanding Cable Jacket Ratings: CL, CM, CMR and CMP

The cable jacket ratings used for cabling runs in homes and buildings, like CL, CL2, CM, CMR and CMP, aren’t as confusing as they might seem.

www.cmple.com

I really appreciate your answer - thanks a lot!

 

[Waxx]

CCA is no disaster, but it has a higher resistance and inductance than pure copper and breaks down faster. For speaker cables the higher resistance and inductance are a disadvantage. But if you already have the cables, don't bother to much.

On the speaker system an the amp. That system is arround 90dB senstive, THX reference level is 85dB at seating position + 20dB headroom. Know that volume drops about 6dB per meter distance (average). There is a calculator to calculate the amp power needed for this here. You can also find the math behind it there:

dBW = Lreq - Lsens + 20 * Log (D2/Dref) + HR
W = 10 to the power of (dBW / 10)

Where:
Lreq = required SPL at listener
Lsens = loudspeaker sensitivity (1W/1M)
D2 = loudspeaker-to-listener distance
Dref = reference distance
HR = desired amplifier headroom
dBW = ratio of power referenced to 1 watt
W = power required

 

[Earwax]

I'm starting to think that you're a fan of dragging artificial lures...

Honestly I'm only wanting to help out with audio purity this forum has many people with the instruments to compare wire guages and audio purity I wouldn't even now how to start to measure that it's not my gift.

Why use speaker wire larger than the watt rated system needs take into consideration the amp rating of the wire match that to the watt rating using method or chart mentioned by others.

The damping affect is also something that is very interesting to me so knowing if that text book rating for resistance is actually applicable to audio and at what ratings does it even become noticeable to our ears ?

It's a subject to be defined by people with nothing to gain financially.