Speakers, lots of technical knowledge, but?

[Theta]

As a new member, I am impressed by the many posts by knowledgeable technicians, tests and reviews, but disappointed with the lack of consensus, what is the point in reviewing every 2 way stand mount speakers with a small mid-woofer and a dome tweeter? In the upper end of the market, they are sound relatively the same or close. The only major difference is looks and price. I think the same goes for column speakers.

 

[middlemarch]

Well then it shouldn't be very difficult to please you. Consider yourself fortunate. For most of the rest of us, I think we're probably a bit more picky. Perhaps a bit too much sometimes, but there it is...

 

[Chrispy]

Perhaps because speakers are more a personal choice in the end than having consensus, plus the reviews are done by Amir by himself, hard to get a consensus that way I can think of a few speakers that measure well and generally get positive reports from users, tho. Some bookshelf speakers are very different sounding even if of similar size and basic design, tho. Same goes for towers...

 

[DVDdoug]

but disappointed with the lack of consensus

I think you'll find a lot of consensus here, and most people here would rank the speakers similarly, although perhaps not identically. But of course, most of us haven't actually heard most of the reviewed speakers. But we know that Amir's measurements are consistent and comparable and he tries to be consistent., honest, and non-biased in his listening tests.

what is the point in reviewing every 2 way stand mount speakers with a small mid-woofer and a dome tweeter?

In MOST cases there will be measurable and audible differences.

In the upper end of the market, they are sound relatively the same or close. The only major difference is looks and price. I think the same goes for column speakers.

In that case you can make your choice according to appearance and/or price!

 

[Theta]

Perhaps because speakers are more a personal choice in the end than having consensus, plus the reviews are done by Amir by himself, hard to get a consensus that way I can think of a few speakers that measure well and generally get positive reports from users, tho. Some bookshelf speakers are very different sounding even if of similar size and basic design, tho. Same goes for towers...

Of course, Amir's reviews are great, but mostly small stand mounts and columns. Di- polls, horns, omnis and large single speakers are mentioned but not tested, probably because of logistics, but Amirs opinions would be welcome on these different types (I see he personalty favors columns).

 

[Chrispy]

If you want to see such tested, buy it and send it in

 

[kemmler3D]

If you want to see such tested, buy it and send it in

2-way shipping on a Klipschorn (if it could even fit on the klippel) would probably cost as much as the speaker itself. This is true to an extent for any larger speaker, I think it explains the preponderance of small speaker reviews.

 

[DMill]

Well then it shouldn't be very difficult to please you. Consider yourself fortunate. For most of the rest of us, I think we're probably a bit more picky. Perhaps a bit too much sometimes, but there it is...

Speakers are difficult to evaluate because in the end it is a bit subjective. Maybe you look at measurements and that is the holy grail. Or maybe you like the way they sound despite their objective flaws. So there is no consensus per se.

 

[kemmler3D]

So there is no consensus per se.

Indeed, even among big names (Toole, Geddes, Winer, Linkwitz) there is no final or full agreement on what type of speaker is best. Some tout more room reflections and wider dispersion, even to the point of favoring dipoles above all - others don't.

Because stereo images are an illusion and are often entirely artificial, there can't be a final determination as to what's correct because there's no "real" version to compare to.

This is before you even get to competing priorities like dynamics, smoothness of frequency response, distortion, etc.

So even if a speaker is the ultimate, final, perfect speaker on-axis, there will still be some debate as to what the best speaker is.

 

[Deleted member 21219]

As a new member, I am impressed by the many posts by knowledgeable technicians, tests and reviews, but disappointed with the lack of consensus,

ASR has over 52,000 members. Exactly what sort of consensus were you expecting to find?

Jim

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

In the upper end of the market, they are sound relatively the same or close.

I would say that many upper end speakers sound good, but they definitely can sound very different.

Let's say speakers that are "good" (not expensive) will have a frequency response of +/-2db.

That means that at a given frequency, there might be a 4db difference in level between speakers. That matters to me, particularly at certain frequencies. I don't know if it matters to you, but feel free to push 2000hz up 2db, then pull it down 2db and compare. Or 100hz, or anything really. Then consider that between two pairs of speakers, there might be multiple swings like that.

Add in room issues, where avoiding an extra 2db at particular frequencies might be really important.

I get your point that there are a lot of smaller speakers reviewed, which of course is due to the way samples are acquired (as has been said). I would say small speakers are a much more important resource for people starting out, who most likely will have started with some small powered speakers or a sound bar. Younger people have smaller places, and won't be going from IEMs and Edifiers to large expensive speakers in one jump. So this speaker selection bias does have some upsides.

 

[Sokel]

I would say that many upper end speakers sound good, but they definitely can sound very different.

Let's say speakers that are "good" (not expensive) will have a frequency response of +/-2db.

That means that at a given frequency, there might be a 4db difference in level between speakers. That matters to me, particularly at certain frequencies. I don't know if it matters to you, but feel free to push 2000hz up 2db, then pull it down 2db and compare. Or 100hz, or anything really. Then consider that between two pairs of speakers, there might be multiple swings like that.

Add in room issues, where avoiding an extra 2db at particular frequencies might be really important.

I get your point that there are a lot of smaller speakers reviewed, which of course is due to the way samples are acquired (as has been said). I would say small speakers are a much more important resource for people starting out, who most likely will have started with some small powered speakers or a sound bar. Younger people have smaller places, and won't be going from IEMs and Edifiers to large expensive speakers in one jump. So this speaker selection bias does have some upsides.

Yep.
Every time I see a an FR with a pronounced 4-8Khz area I get a headache only by watching the chart no matter how the rest of the speaker is,or watching an anemic midbass takes away my will for life
Differences,even small,do matter.

 

[caught gesture]

If only speaker manufacturers were interested in having independent, measurement based reviews of their products, they would finance such reviews. Instead many manufacturers seem scared of such reviews.

 

[Theta]

Yep.
Every time I see a an FR with a pronounced 4-8Khz area I get a headache only by watching the chart no matter how the rest of the speaker is,or watching an anemic midbass takes away my will for life
Differences,even small,do matter.

Exactly, they are all anemic in mid bass and a headache in the mid highs, 80% of the music is in the midrange so you need a proper midrange driver or it is not Hi Fi.

 

[Digital_Thor]

Just go "shopping" for more knowledge and put it to good use - I did. Find the parts that technically fit the sound you mostly prefer, and then build your own speaker.
By looking at known designs and clear measurements from spinorama.org. You can clearly see the pros and cons of each design. Then you look in the mirror, the wallet and the clock, and truthfully acknowledge how far you'll go with each parameter. You could even make someone else build the cabinet, make the drawing and cuts, and so on.
It's all a matter of what you really want with this hobby.
Many speakers we see, are a bit slimmer, has smaller woofers, and tend to rise a bit in the top... for some reason. Could be a design thing.

When you make your own, color, shape, wood, veneer, size, closed/reflex.... suddenly lot's of freedom - but also responsibility.
I'm long-time testing a pair of DIY at the moment. Might like them so much, that a nice cabinet is going to be built over the winter. KEF coax and two Satori WO24P-8 and a closed 75 liter box in simple medium damped wood, with a bit of sheep wool inside. I cross at 400 and 2300Hz with LR24, and all is active with several amplifiers and DSP... and... 4 subwoofers - because I like the full-ness and "power" of a physical sound, even at lower volume. To me, a reflex cabinet always sounds like it is trying too hard.
If I did not have the skills, time and money... I might have bought something similar... and maybe have the mains passive.
ASR among others, gave me data to support my preference. But I did not feel KEF made a speaker with sufficient "oompf" in the midwoofer-section. To me, the WO24 has that amount of surface area and all in a small enough design, to still make the cabinet a bit sleek - which I also like. So I DIY'ed