Speakers for low wattage amp tube

[Kartingboy]

Hello
I tried to pair with the Leben my b&w DM600s3 this morning. It's a small 2 way speaker with 88dB/w. It's I very good match, I wasn't very optimistic but sounds great together. I m quite surprised.

 

[zman01]

Good to hear Kartingboy. So all has been not lost with the choice of your tube amp!

Keep the experiments going.

 

[dualazmak]

discovery hifi : HECO DIREKT DREIKLANG

Thank you for the info on Heco Direkt Dreiklang. This is my first time reading about it, really interesting SP; it is physically large, though.
The highly efficient 15" woofer (sub-woofer) seems much impressive for me.
I also found an interesting rather intensive review article;
https://www.lowbeats.de/test-heco-direkt-dreiklang-box-mit-120-db/

I do hope I would have chance of listening to Heco Direkt Dreiklang in Japan.

 

[DanielT]

Thank you for the info on Heco Direkt Dreiklang. This is my first time to read about it, really interesting SP; it is physically large, though.
The highly efficient 15" woofer (sub-woofer) seems much impressive for me.
I also found an interesting rather intensive review article;
https://www.lowbeats.de/test-heco-direkt-dreiklang-box-mit-120-db/
View attachment 257352
I do hope I would have chance of listening to Heco Direkt Dreiklang in Japan.

They have several similar models, which can be seen in the page you referenced. I don't know in which countries they were sold. Here you can at least see which ones are currently on the used market:

Used heco direkt for Sale | HifiShark.com

Used Heco Direkt for sale on 300+ second hand hifi sites & shops. Use Hifi Shark to monitor pricing and global availability

www.hifishark.com

Heco Direkt obviously engineered to utilize the baffle plus the room for acoustic support and dB boost. Bass port is down-firing to get this boost.

Given the talk of DIY in the thread and tube amp with little power. Then you have to resort to all the tricks there are to create speakers with high sensitivity. Drivers in themselves with high sensitivity then place them on for the purpose , high sensitivity, on large baffles.

Placement in corners give a big acoustic boost. Known for a long time and the effect used by (most famous) Klipsch among others:

Acoustic boost can of course also be obtained from well-designed horn speakers. A beginner would probably have to be a little careful with their own construction and design of such. Horn speakers are difficult to get right. Easier then to DIY a classic down-firingp ported speaker. Maybe even placed in the corners of the listening room.

Best to say, corner-placed, down-firing for example subwoofers is good for sensitivity BUT it can require quite a lot of amp power (15 watts won't get you far) if you need to EQ them. 15 watts for the subwoofer itself is also far too little power.

 

[Poultrygeist]

Before the invention of the transistor flea watt tube amps were the norm and speakers from that era had to be efficient. Here are some full range examples that when placed in easy DIY open baffles can be quite impressive. My favorites so far mirror the blogger: Zenith 49CZ, Coral Holey Basket and the newly introduced Lii Audio F-15.

Glow in the Dark Audio--Speakers

Glow in the Dark Audio showcases Kevin Davis’ personal collection of small-scale, DIY and one of a kind hifi audio gear, with a focus on single ended and push pull tube amplifiers and full range open baffle speakers.

glowinthedarkaudio.com

 

[dualazmak]

Heco Direkt obviously engineered to utilize the baffle plus the room for acoustic support and dB boost. Bass port is down-firing to get this boost.

Thank you @DanielT for your further info on Heco Direkt SPs and on acoustic bass boost.
Sorry for my getting a little bit out of the scope of this thread, but let me continue this topic, highly efficient SP with downward bass boost (maybe also fine with low wattage tube amps), for a while.

I am also interested in Fyne Audio F704 for the similar high efficiency (96 dB / 2.83 V at 1 m, 8 Ohm, 24 Hz - 26 kHz) and the downward port-firing towards floor for 360-degree bass boost.

What would be your comparative thoughts (and/or comparative listening experiences) between Heco Direkt SP and Fyne Audio F704?

 

[Poultrygeist]

Here are the Lii Audio F-15s ( $399 per pair for the drivers ) placed in expensive open baffles which wouldn't be difficult to DIY ( I did ). There are no corrective circuits or filters and the F-15s run full range straight off the amp. I power mine with a 3.5 watt 2a3 SET amp.

 

[mhardy6647]

Placement in corners give a big acoustic boost. Known for a long time and the effect used by (most famous) Klipsch among others:

That's a really funny rendering, given that it omits the tweeter (and concomitantly exaggerates the size of the mouth of the MR horn).
This is an earlier generation of the K-horn, but it gives a better impression of the MR/HF section.

The K-horn is... actually not bad. If I had to listen to a pair of "heritage" Klipsch loudspeakers, the K-horn would be my choice. It does less wrong than the smaller all horn enclosures, and is better balanced than the Cornwall (not to mention the horribly mucked up Heresy balance). Admittedly, there's no doubt the current versions of all of the heritage Klipsch designs are better than the earlier versions -- they really couldn't have gotten much worse to listen to.

FWIW, the MR horn and driver(s) Klipsch used were the worst Achilles' heel(s) of the heritage Klipsch, to my ears. Nasty-sounding things.
There is a huge aftermarket in improving the Klipsch loudspeakers, for better or worse. Many of the modifications leave very, very little of the original design extant by the end of the process!

 

[mhardy6647]

For the record, I am not averse to corner loading loudspeakers -- heretical as that may seem in 2023.

DSC_0978 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

Listening to Vermont Public's wonderful radio program All the Traditions last night via a lowly Sangean "HD" (hybrid digital) FM stereo tuner using the corner-loaded "Frankenaltec" loudspeakers powered by a singe-ended 2A3 amplifier.

 

[Kartingboy]

Good to hear Kartingboy. So all has been not lost with the choice of your tube amp!

Keep the experiments going.

Hello
My listening with little B&W goes on. Well, it's an excellent pairing. Music comes out loud and clear, very loud at low volume. I wouldn't have bet one penny. But the most that impress me is the bass presence. It comes out very strong to my ears. Like a sort of punch. Incredible.

In some threads on the web I read that one problem of this amp is the power. But I can firmly say that's not true at all. Impossible. It plays very nicely.

 

[DanielT]

Here are the Lii Audio F-15s ( $399 per pair for the drivers ) placed in expensive open baffles which wouldn't be difficult to DIY ( I did ). There are no corrective circuits or filters and the F-15s run full range straight off the amp. I power mine with a 3.5 watt 2a3 SET amp.

For the record, I am not averse to corner loading loudspeakers -- heretical as that may seem in 2023.

DSC_0978 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

Listening to Vermont Public's wonderful radio program All the Traditions last night via a lowly Sangean "HD" (hybrid digital) FM stereo tuner using the corner-loaded "Frankenaltec" loudspeakers powered by a singe-ended 2A3 amplifier.

There is something about large speakers with high sensitivity that I find appealing. I don't know why because I have enough amp power so it's enough and leaves enough headroom to power up 85 dB (or lower) sensitive speakers.

 

[mhardy6647]

I find them appealing, too -- and I am fortunate enough to have a dedicated albeit cluttered space to exercise my infatuation. My wife is a saint.

Otherwise I'd have to invest in a pair of Altec Magnificents.

 

[DanielT]

What would be your comparative thoughts (and/or comparative listening experiences) between Heco Direkt SP and Fyne Audio F704?

Well, they probably both have their merits. It is somewhat the same design philosophy, high sensitivity. Same type of downwards firing port
solution. Listen and compare, read tests with measurements if available. That's the advice I can give.

These are the ones you meant? :

F704 Floorstanding Speaker | Hi-Fi - FYNE AUDIO

Built in the UK, the F704 blends a 300mm IsoFlare point source driver and 300mm multi-fibre bass driver in a modern Hi-Fi floorstanding speaker cabinet.

www.fyneaudio.com

 

[DanielT]

Hello
My listening with little B&W goes on. Well, it's an excellent pairing. Music comes out loud and clear, very loud at low volume. I wouldn't have bet one penny. But the most that impress me is the bass presence. It comes out very strong to my ears. Like a sort of punch. Incredible.

In some threads on the web I read that one problem of this amp is the power. But I can firmly say that's not true at all. Impossible. It plays very nicely.

With the right type of speaker plus not too much dynamics in the music and normal listening volume, it can absolutely be enough.

I am attaching a picture of a small tube amp of 10 watts that I had a few years ago. Worked fine, as long as I played at normal listening volume. I think the speakers in the picture had 88 dB, or if it was 87dB sensitivity. Unfortunately, I don't remember now. Hell, I don't even remember the manufacturer or model of those speakers. In any case that combo worked fine (plus with an active subwoofer).

 

[Peerke007]

Hello
My listening with little B&W goes on. Well, it's an excellent pairing. Music comes out loud and clear, very loud at low volume. I wouldn't have bet one penny. But the most that impress me is the bass presence. It comes out very strong to my ears. Like a sort of punch. Incredible.

In some threads on the web I read that one problem of this amp is the power. But I can firmly say that's not true at all. Impossible. It plays very nicely.

My little tube amp (Houston mini 1998+, special edition with hard wired amplifier, push pull design with EL84 tubes, 2 x 13 W) is paired with Sonus Faber Venere 2.0. (88 dB SPL (2.83V/1M)). It plays loud enough for me in my room and I like the sound.

Since a few weeks I use a MiniDSP with a cross over at 80 Hz to split line input to the Houston mini and a KEF Kube 10b subwoofer. That made the total even more to my liking.

After all, you have to like what you hear and the wife has to like what she is seeing. The WAF on both my amp and the speakers is high in my case.

 

[Poultrygeist]

Here are my 98 db Lowther DX3's over 15" bass drivers in simple DIY baffles. This system is an example of bi-amping where you can utilize the best of both worlds - a flea watt SET amp for the high frequencies and powerful solid state amps for the low frequency.

 

[Peerke007]

Here are my 98 db Lowther DX3's over 15" bass drivers in simple DIY baffles. This system is an example of bi-amping where you can utilize the best of both worlds - a flea watt SET amp for the high frequencies and powerful solid state amps for the low frequency.

View attachment 266833

Same kind of functional setup like mine. Subwoofer by electronics, mid and high by tube. Only difference is that my set up will not go very loud with the 88 dB Veneres. My room is not big (30 m2 / 300 sq ft) and I'm like 2.5 meters (7.5 feet) away from the speakers. I don't need extreme loud music and my neighbours like me for that .

 

[SRB5280]

Yes, I would prefer lossless, but I find I can rarely hear the difference. I often listen to a classical radio stream (KUSC) at 127kbs, and I don't notice any flaws (though I'm also usually not listening critically).

I find this list interesting because (1) Dennis is an acclaimed speaker designer and (2) it's so different from the Harman list!


Looks good! I'm a little surprised that you like 80s London/Phllips recordings; these are a bit too close up for my tastes. I prefer Telarc and Delos from that era; my own go-to listening test record is the Delos sampler: https://delosmusic.com/recording/symphonic-sound-stage-vol-1 And for a single disc, the Telarc Firebird: https://www.amazon.com/Stravinsky-Firebird-Borodin-Music-Prince/dp/B000003CSF Telarc once issued a detailed guide to what to listen for throughout the Firebird in their newsletter Quarter Notes; I still have a paper copy somewhere, but cannot find it online. Sadly Telarc is no more!

I found this post while searching for scans of Quarter Notes online, and am happy to link to this scan of the guide you mention: https://cdn2.imagearchive.com/quadraphonicquad/data/attach/70/70085-Telarc-Firebird-Notes-1-.pdf

 

[MattHooper]

Here are the Lii Audio F-15s ( $399 per pair for the drivers ) placed in expensive open baffles which wouldn't be difficult to DIY ( I did ). There are no corrective circuits or filters and the F-15s run full range straight off the amp. I power mine with a 3.5 watt 2a3 SET amp.

Beautiful! Would love to hear those!

My little tube amp (Houston mini 1998+, special edition with hard wired amplifier, push pull design with EL84 tubes, 2 x 13 W) is paired with Sonus Faber Venere 2.0. (88 dB SPL (2.83V/1M)). It plays loud enough for me in my room and I like the sound.

Since a few weeks I use a MiniDSP with a cross over at 80 Hz to split line input to the Houston mini and a KEF Kube 10b subwoofer. That made the total even more to my liking.

After all, you have to like what you hear and the wife has to like what she is seeing. The WAF on both my amp and the speakers is high in my case.

OMG, total lust factor on that amp. Hit's all my "bling" buttons!

 

[Poultrygeist]

A couple of wide band single driver speakers I built from plans that sound really nice with flea watt amps.