Speakers for low wattage amp tube

[DanielT]

It tickles me that 1. You insist on using tubes, so 2. You need snake-oil vibration absorbers because tubes are microphonic

They do give the tubes that 50s Sci-Fi look, though.

Well, for the record, I see it as this. HiFi is a hobby. What you want to achieve is up to you. Do whatever you want. That being said, getting some general information/advice from those (who I believe really know tube amps, like in the video) who know their stuff is just great.

 

[fpitas]

Well, for the record, I see it as this. HiFi is a hobby. What you want to achieve is up to you. Do whatever you want. That being said, getting some general information/advice from those (who I believe really know tube amps, like in the video) who know their stuff is just great.

Sure. I'd use them just for the Suddenly It's 1953! look.

 

[DanielT]

Sure. I'd use them just for the Suddenly It's 1953! look.

1953, so modern. No. The 1920s applies, #25

Historical expose. Development of better performing transistors for hifi.

I was intrigued and did some quick "bathroom" reading on Luxor. I had never heard of them. It seems they had a long history of building products many of which they designed themselves, though I expect some under license as well. They did rebadge Luxman receivers, but the one in the link does...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[enricoclaudio]

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[DanielT]

For tube amp with few watts. DIY speaker, choose PA bass driver with high sensitivity, pair with suitable tweeter in the form of compression driver. Build speakers that are then placed in the corners of your listening room, that to gain around 6 extra dB compared to speakers placed a bit out from the back wall/corner.

Here are suggestions for 8 inches drivers:

Pro Woofers, Subwoofers & Midrange Speakers

Then, as I advocated before, active subwoofer with LP-HP filter. That crossover set around 50-80 Hz.
(active subwoofer with a few hundred watts amp so you have headroom in case you later need/want to EQ)

 

[DanielT]

Speaking of high sensitivity, line speakers. See this thread. Ppataki's buildings:

Murphy's Corner Line Array project

Another update: the 'sandwich' panels are done! As you can see in the below pictures, Green Glue has been applied between the panels (2x12mm birch plywood) There are some panels missing, they will be done a bit later The next phase will be to put together the back of the speaker, paint it (with...

audiosciencereview.com

Even in DIY circles Wesayso's famous line spekers are brought up, by Wesayo himself in that thread. Line speakers with, if I remember correctly, Peerless tc9 drivers in them:

Edit:
Linespeakers can require a lot of EQ in the higher registers. With 15 watts it can be difficult to do that, but you can always add top tweeters with high sensitivity together with linespeakers. It can be a challenge to integrate it in a good way, but the possibility to do so exists in any case.

For more details on line speakers talk to Ppataki or Wesayso. I was just covering a bit in general about line speakers.

 

[dfuller]

So... The issue is this.

15 watts isn't going to get you very far in terms of listening level with most modern speakers, so you need to choose something with high sensitivity. The next problem is that the amp you chose is fairly high noise, so high sensitivity speakers may emit an unpleasant amount of noise when just sitting.

 

[DanielT]

So... The issue is this.

15 watts isn't going to get you very far in terms of listening level with most modern speakers, so you need to choose something with high sensitivity. The next problem is that the amp you chose is fairly high noise, so high sensitivity speakers may emit an unpleasant amount of noise when just sitting.

A challenge, undeniably. But a pretty fun one. What to do with a 15 watt amp.

But I'm too lazy to tinker with that. Easier to buy around a hundred, or a little more, nice solid state watts and then basically be able to choose any speakers.

Witwald, #34 in this thread:
Once you get a reasonably powerful solid state amplifier (e.g., 100W RMS into 8 ohms), with a reasonably high damping factor (e.g., >200), then your choice of loudspeakers will be ever so much greater.

 

[MattHooper]

So... The issue is this.

15 watts isn't going to get you very far in terms of listening level with most modern speakers, so you need to choose something with high sensitivity. The next problem is that the amp you chose is fairly high noise, so high sensitivity speakers may emit an unpleasant amount of noise when just sitting.

I guess it depends on the room and how loud you listen.

My MBL 121 Radialstrahlers were a pretty brutal load, 82dB sensitivity, 4ohm nominal (though probably dipped below there). Yet my favorite amp on the MBLs was an old classic Eico HF81 integrated tube amp - 14W/side ! It drove them louder than I could stand and sounded glorious! (I know the whole "synergy thing" is frowned upon here...but, that was an amazing synergy for my tastes).

 

[cavedriver]

I guess it depends on the room and how loud you listen.

My MBL 121 Radialstrahlers were a pretty brutal load, 82dB sensitivity, 4ohm nominal (though probably dipped below there). Yet my favorite amp on the MBLs was an old classic Eico HF81 integrated tube amp - 14W/side ! It drove them louder than I could stand and sounded glorious! (I know the whole "synergy thing" is frowned upon here...but, that was an amazing synergy for my tastes).

I got to hear the MBL 101 mk II's this summer. I think they were driving them with an A/B solid state amp but they also had Ayon tube amps. I should have asked the sales guy to drive them with that, although I was mostly just grateful to be hearing $100k+ speakers. Not quite a wow but impressive.

Edit: And you owned Radialstrahlers and you sold them?? Why?

 

[MattHooper]

I got to hear the MBL 101 mk II's this summer. I think they were driving them with an A/B solid state amp but they also had Ayon tube amps. I should have asked the sales guy to drive them with that, although I was mostly just grateful to be hearing $100k+ speakers. Not quite a wow but impressive.

Cool.

Edit: And you owned Radialstrahlers and you sold them?? Why?

Short answer: I'm an audiophile. I had the itch.

I was obsessed with MBL speakers since hearing the 101Ds around 2000 or so. I could never afford the big guys but years later happened upon a crazy deal for the MBL 121 stand mounted version. They had been damaged during shipping to a customer - one grill useless, the other bent, some scratches, a ding on the corner etc. New they cost $18,000 CAD. I got them for just over $3,000. With a bit of spit 'n polish they actually looked brand new unless you went looking for marks super close up. So I got to have my MBL experience at home for about 10 years or so.

A few years ago I got all hot 'n bothered for the Joseph Audio Perspective speakers once I heard them, and they were pricey compared to what I was used to paying for speakers (even though I was getting demo models at a much reduced price). So I needed the money, something had to give and I had too many speakers, so I sold several off. I was ok selling the MBLs at that point having enjoyed them for so long (I'd have different speakers rotating in my system), and actually the Joseph speakers sounded about as close to the MBLs as I've ever heard from a regular box speaker. So...there ya go.

I listed the MBLs for even a bit less than I paid for them, because I knew there were "not exactly rich" audiophiles out there would love a unique opportunity to own them. I've never seen a speaker sell so fast. I got something like 36 enthusiastic offers within the first day.

 

[Wesayso]

Linespeakers can require a lot of EQ in the higher registers. With 15 watts it can be difficult to do that,

Luckily I have a 400 watt into 8 ohm amplifier with about a 700 watt peak power reserve on top. Mosfet power, no tubes with those numbers obviously.
Those arrays now feature 25x Scan Speak 10F 8414G10 per side and have filters to make them act more like an expanding array. They use more drivers the lower one goes in frequency. Giving me a very respectable DI graph to boot.

(I know the whole "synergy thing" is frowned upon here...but, that was an amazing synergy for my tastes)

I have been a Mechanical Engineer for most of my professional career. Trained to be analytic in testing and relying on facts and science. So naturally, I followed the proposed idea that all competently designed amplifiers should sound alike. Like a wire with gain, right?
It wasn't until a very kind member of DIYAudio challenged me that I altered that opinion. He brought along 5 different amplifiers in my home to test with my speakers. In his opinion they would all have a different character. For testing purposes we used my Radioshack SPL meter in-between to set the average level the same for each amp.

Sure enough they all did sound somewhat different. Some more than others. So from that point on I too became a believer in amp/speaker synergy. I do now own 2 of the amps that were brought in for that test . I still measure everything I do though .

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Luckily I have a 400 watt into 8 ohm amplifier with about a 700 watt peak power reserve on top. Mosfet power, no tubes with those numbers obviously.
Those arrays now feature 25x Scan Speak 10F 8414G10 per side and have filters to make them act more like an expanding array. They use more drivers the lower one goes in frequency. Giving me a very respectable DI graph to boot.



I have been a Mechanical Engineer for most of my professional career. Trained to be analytic in testing and relying on facts and science. So naturally, I followed the proposed idea that all competently designed amplifiers should sound alike. Like a wire with gain, right?
It wasn't until a very kind member of DIYAudio challenged me that I altered that opinion. He brought along 5 different amplifiers in my home to test with my speakers. In his opinion they would all have a different character. For testing purposes we used my Radioshack SPL meter in-between to set the average level the same for each amp.

Sure enough they all did sound somewhat different. Some more than others. So from that point on I too became a believer in amp/speaker synergy. I do now own 2 of the amps that were brought in for that test . I still measure everything I do though .

SPL Meter is not adequate for SPL matching. Use a multimeter.

Plus you most likely knew what amp was playing or you at least knew that an amp was switched? If yes, that alone invalidates the test. Sorry.

 

[SIY]

Hello to all the comunity!
i ordered a Leben CS300Xs (15W EL84)
I'm looking for a pair of speakers (not too expensive) to buy in the used market. I would prefer stand speakers but towers ar not excluded at prior.

at first I will pair it with my cheap old Indiana Line 022 (93dB sensivity - They should be a quite easy load but i can't find the impedance/phase graph nowhere on the web)

What would you suggest me to search for?
I see that is not easy to find good speakers for this little tube amp.

Please let me know! Yuor help is appreciated very much!

Best regards,
Fabrizio

You might investigate Morgan Jones's "Arpeggio." It's a diy design but very simple to build, and was specifically meant for low power high source impedance amplification.

 

[Wesayso]

SPL Meter is not adequate for SPL matching. Use a multimeter.

Plus you most likely knew what amp was playing or you at least knew that an amp was switched? If yes, that alone invalidates the test. Sorry.

The expectation bias in my case: I expected no amp to sound better/different/sweeter or whatever to my own amp at the time .

As one of the amplifiers stayed after the test I've done my share of measurements to satisfy my own curiosity. Yours I can't cure though.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

These myths:

If you have microphonics, on the input tube, you can test to see if the rubber rings work or not.
- first, with no rings, start tapping the glass gently with a pencil or something, from the base moving up towards the top, all the while listening to the feedback sound from the speakers.
If you can hear the tapping sounds, you have microphonics, but also note if the sound from the speakers changes with where on the tube you are tapping.
- Now put two rubber rings on the same tube, evenly spaced, and repeat the above.
You could see a benefit!
My theory is that, at low frequencies, where the energy of the sound is greatest, the glass starts to ring at its fundamental frequency, which is going to be higher than the bass frequency.
So with every hard kick on the bass drum, or a hard pluck on bass guitar, the glass starts to ring. This ringing, because it is at a higher frequency, becomes audible.
So I say, under special circumstances, two rubber rings (sometimes even one) is beneficial, and not snake -oil.
It won't interfere with cooling, either.

 

[antcollinet]

The expectation bias in my case: I expected no amp to sound better/different/sweeter or whatever to my own amp at the time .

As one of the amplifiers stayed after the test I've done my share of measurements to satisfy my own curiosity. Yours I can't cure though.

That is not how expectation bias works. In any case expectation is only one of many cognitive biases. If you didn’t test blind you didnt test. Or at least you dont know if you were testing the amps or your brain

that is not to say there weren‘t differences, few amps measure as the proverbial wire. But you don’t know there were from a sighted test.

 

[Wesayso]

That is not how expectation bias works. In any case expectation is only one of many cognitive biases. If you didn’t test blind you didnt test. Or at least you dont know if you were testing the amps or your brain

Why do you think I measured it afterwards .

 

[lateralous]

Why do you think I measured it afterwards .

Measured what? How does this make your test valid for the conclusion you've drawn?

 

[Wesayso]

What do you think, you could have found out if you really wanted.
Not planning to spoon feed it to you.
(I would have if it were a genuine question )