Speaker accuracy is overrated

[Theta]

I am only concerned with the reproduction of concerts or concert like recordings without all the gimmicks and all the so called artistic additives of the recording engineers which dictate the accuracy so many audiophile crave and demand from their little 2 way speakers however good or expensive..
I demand from speakers to primarily deliver the lowest IM distortion at an average of 85db in a small room.
Perhaps some one can create a wall of sound like the sound man of the Greatful Dead provided for concerts only for the home.
Does anyone else on this forum aspire to this type of fidelity?
Is this the impossible dream? Can we come close? How?

 

[Purité Audio]

I believe you can hire PA equipment, go for it, do you have nearby neighbours?
Keith

 

[Blumlein 88]

IM distortion is one kind of distortion. Not as noticeable as most imagine. Frequency response aberrations are another form of distortion and one we are quite sensitive to hearing.

Quite a few of the better speakers reviewed here can manage what you are asking to accomplish. Amir includes distortion measurements with each speaker. THD is related to IMD. Look at the Revel F228Be for a good result. The F208 isn't bad either. You probably are looking mostly at large floor standing speakers to do this for you.

Just saw Purite Audio suggestion for PA speakers. Yes, those could do it too, but maybe tough in small rooms.

 

[Koeitje]

Frequency response aberrations are another form of distortion and one we are quite sensitive to hearing.

Its linear distortion. It doesn't add frequencies (harmonics are non-linear distortions) but changes the amplitude and phase. So a frequency response that isn't perfectly flat is already distortion. Throw in compression at higher SPL levels and you have even more linear distortion.

 

[ppataki]

As far as I know (and I am happy to stand corrected), IM can be minimized by limiting the range of a speaker driver; i.e. using a multi-way system (at least 3 ways but rather 4) is the answer you are seeking.

 

[Adis]

Overrated my elbow!​

As long as the speaker plays Vivaldi (and not Mozart or Bach) whenever I put on a Vivaldi CD, I consider such a speaker to be hi-fi.​

 

[DSJR]

I think and from some experience, that audiophiles don't always want or need an 'accurate' loudspeaker as it's all for effect. I'd also suggest that many music lovers with no 'gear interest' don't always care as their brain interpretations make up the shortcomings in the reproducing gear.

The slight deviations in the better speakers out there can be used to help blend into a typical living room (most of 'us' out here don't have dens/man-caves, nor a dedicated treated studio in which to immerse ourselves) and I was stunned in recent years, hearing how some speaker models (porty with the often usual slight crossover dip) could change all but chameleon-like depending on the room they were used in (other speakers less so I admit).

These days and with bad hearing now, I NEED the boxes (ideally) not to have much if any 'sound' of their own at all, as much as possible! My current (sentimentally owned) speakers are under warning...

 

[Rednaxela]

Overrated my elbow!​

As long as the speaker plays Vivaldi (and not Mozart or Bach) whenever I put on a Vivaldi CD, I consider such a speaker to be hi-fi.​

This must be one of your favorite test tracks then.

 

[Theta]

I believe you can hire PA equipment, go for it, do you have nearby neighbours?
Keith

That is the essential of my query. Is there a high grade HI Fi PA system that would work in a domestic environment?

Apparently the only company going for this type of reproduction is Zu Audio, I tried one of their base models, very disappointing to say the least, review are also terrible.

 

[Open Mind Audio]

That is the essential of my query. Is there a high grade HI Fi PA system that would work in a domestic environment?

Apparently the only company going for this type of reproduction is Zu Audio, I tried one of their base models, very disappointing to say the least, review are also terrible.

Asking because I don't know but would line array speakers + subs accomplish this?

JBL makes some PA-line array speakers one could use in a home environment, and there are other options ranging from DIY to high-end.

 

[Adis]

This must be one of your favorite test tracks then.

It is now.

 

[SSS]

I am only concerned with the reproduction of concerts or concert like recordings without all the gimmicks and all the so called artistic additives of the recording engineers which dictate the accuracy so many audiophile crave and demand from their little 2 way speakers however good or expensive..
I demand from speakers to primarily deliver the lowest IM distortion at an average of 85db in a small room.
Perhaps some one can create a wall of sound like the sound man of the Greatful Dead provided for concerts only for the home.
Does anyone else on this forum aspire to this type of fidelity?
Is this the impossible dream? Can we come close? How?

Don't have an advice. But whatever will be used in a room will not have the sound of speakers in open air. Had a look to the "wall of sound" which I did not know before. Impressing installation at that time.

 

[goldark]

On a forum like ASR where the focus is on engineering and measurements, accuracy is king.

However, I do agree that accuracy isn't necessary for subjective satisfaction. I can enjoy watching a music video on my phone with its crappy speakers just as much as I can on my main system, while fully admitting that the main speakers have higher fidelity with more accuracy.

From my personal experience, accuracy is more important with music when you're doing critical listening. For home theater applications where your attention is divided among sound, video, paying attention to dialogue, and following a plot line, I hardly notice if the audio (typically spread out among 5 or more speakers) is inaccurate. For me, almost any speaker with a close-to-reasonable frequency response (and maybe some that aren't) will work well for home theater, provided it gets loud enough and dialogue is intelligible.

 

[DBA ndreas]

That is the essential of my query. Is there a high grade HI Fi PA system that would work in a domestic environment?

Apparently the only company going for this type of reproduction is Zu Audio, I tried one of their base models, very disappointing to say the least, review are also terrible.

KV2 Audio ESD6 are super accurate small passive PA speakers that are very good for Hifi listening if you add subwoofers. I directly compared them to Klein Hummel P110 Monitors and lots of Hi-Fi bookshelf speakers. In a 2 m triangle I preferred the ESD6 over the others.

 

[tmtomh]

I am only concerned with the reproduction of concerts or concert like recordings without all the gimmicks and all the so called artistic additives of the recording engineers which dictate the accuracy so many audiophile crave and demand from their little 2 way speakers however good or expensive..
I demand from speakers to primarily deliver the lowest IM distortion at an average of 85db in a small room.
Perhaps some one can create a wall of sound like the sound man of the Greatful Dead provided for concerts only for the home.
Does anyone else on this forum aspire to this type of fidelity?
Is this the impossible dream? Can we come close? How?

I’m confused. Accuracy of on-axis frequency response is not limited to “little two-way” stand-mount speakers. Plenty of large floor-standers that can project a tall soundstage to a relatively far away listening position are on the market, and among those the more “accurate” ones are likely to sound better, all other things being equal.

So too are speakers with more accurate off-axis response likely to be more pleasing if you listen from more than one spot or if you feel the need to toe them out a little to widen the soundstage and increase the proportion of reflected-to-direct sound.

If you are convinced that a less-accurate speaker will produce a more convincing concert-hall illusion with a specific type of recording of a specific genre of music, good luck with that. Different types of inaccuracies will interact in various ways with your room, and the results will likely vary based on exactly where you position the speakers and which handful of recordings you initially use to evaluate them.

This is why fidelity aka accuracy is often a helpful reference standard - it reduces the circle of confusion.

 

[mj30250]

I’m confused. Accuracy of on-axis frequency response is not limited to “little two-way” stand-mount speakers. Plenty of large floor-standers that can project a tall soundstage to a relatively far away listening position are on the market, and among those the more “accurate” ones are likely to sound better, all other things being equal.

So too are speakers with more accurate off-axis response likely to be more pleasing if you listen from more than one spot or if you feel the need to toe them out a little to widen the soundstage and increase the proportion of reflected-to-direct sound.

If you are convinced that a less-accurate speaker will produce a more convincing concert-hall illusion with a specific type of recording of a specific genre of music, good luck with that. Different types of inaccuracies will interact in various ways with your room, and the results will likely vary based on exactly where you position the speakers and which handful of recordings you initially use to evaluate them.

This is why fidelity aka accuracy is often a helpful reference standard - it reduces the circle of confusion.

+1 to all of this.

And 85dB averages in a small room should be well within the capabilities of many well-engineered speakers, even smaller, budget-friendly ones - especially if subwoofers will be used. Look at 3(+)-way designs to minimize IM distortion. As mentioned, there are several options to choose from, many of which are reasonably "accurate".

 

[Verig]

Wall of sound. How about taking it literally? In-wall and very flat against the wall speakers provide different sound stage than normal stand mounters or floor models. I sometimes very much enjoy sound without "all that 3D", easier to follow and for most of my music it's actually the more accurate presentation if one uses live experience as a meter.

If this is not quite what was asked then there are 15" coax elements (for example B&C 15CXN76) that can be very hifi if you know a DIY guy around there. It will be accurate and certainly won't need much movement. Different experience than a small two-way for sure.

 

[rank]

We are approaching here, as is very often the case here, maximum subjectivity.
In the past, in hifi clubs, we did the following experiment: several speakers were placed together and we did not know which one was playing. You can be sure that it was the smallest (whose brilliant bass was unanimously praised) that won the match, sometimes barely filtered stuff with unknown components at the cheapest (already Chinese but even worse than currently, yes, it is possible).
That's why I use DIY, I use professional loudspeakers (but do not manufacture the boxes, my carpentry skills being limited) because they are known for their durability, very high efficiency and minimal distortion. To play at 85 dB, you will need less than 1 watt or an English brand (but not a Tannoy).

 

[ThatSoundsGood]

The wall of sound would have had a ton of distortion and would be considered low-fi by today's standards. For today's professional PA gear, you would look at L-Acoustics, D&B or Meyer for what you want. Meyer equipment will produce the lowest distortion. D&B or L-Acoustics are the most coveted Pro PA system makers out there.

 

[Chr1]

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