SONCOZ SGD1 Audio DAC Review

[pozz]

I don't think I'll worry about that one...

https://merzbow.bandcamp.com/album/venereology

Part of the venerable tradition of noise music.

View attachment 41953

Eyeballing it, let's say 90dB of noise and distortion-free operation.

 

[Vincent Kars]

A plethora of inputs but no headphone out!

 

[th0m]

Thanks for reminding me of Merzbow. I remember listening to a lot of noise bands and power electronics stuff back during the days of My Humps--now that latter track is some NOISE!

Never ever thought people would be discussing the reproducibility of that music!!

The collab albums with Boris are great.

 

[Damian]

How the hump translates into the audible realm?

 

[m8o]

Wow! What a bargain. Hope the price stays there when I'm ready to buy.

Wish it had HDMI too. But, can't be perfect. I guess as I have the M51 for that I will keep it.

 

[jtwrace]

Too bad about that ESS hump. Is it Roon capable?

 

[tmtomh]

So at the worst part of the hump the bad stuff is still -116 down?

Yes, but the signal is at about -25 there, so the bad stuff would be about 91dB down from the signal - still very good, but what folks need to remember is that this is just the DAC's output level, so "-116" is not an absolute level. Once the analogue output exits the DAC, you can crank up the output - and with it the IM distortion - as much as you like/can tolerate. So the important thing is the relationship between IM distortion level and musical peak level, and here that appears to be 91dB.

In Amir's chart I believe IM distortion is at -73dB for a -25dB signal. I don't know why he shows it at -73 while this more recent image shows it at -91 from peak signal level. Probably something to do with the two different tests.

Extrapolating from Amir's IMD chart, the worst case appears to have IMD at about -65dB when the volume is set to -40. That would be roughly equivalent to a level of -83dB relative to a -40dB signal using WolfX-700's test.

Yes?

 

[Tks]

I agree but maybe @pozz can link the reviews when they are for the same product, precisely for the reasons you mention.

To this end ASR developing standardized methods for review measurements that are to be published here would be of great benefit to.

There's a bit to sort out so we maximise the value and respect the effort you are putting in.

Again @WolfX-700 ,I have huge admiration for the selfless, open and egoless way you have conducted yourself here and thank you for the great work you doing.

Just don't get more likes than Amirm , else I will have to listen to all the crying behind the scenes. He's already jealous of your wolf's , clearly they would eat the pink panthers for breakfast.

I hope Wolf can get his own forum, or sub section. I missed a few of his reviews because they get buried in the already convoluted forum naming scheme as is.

 

[gvl]

Reading into how SMPTE is done, the 2 frequencies are fed at different amplitudes at a ratio of 1/4, then the stronger (lower frequency) signal is removed and the number we see on the graph is calculated relative to the weaker (high-frequency) signal. So the multi-tone with equal amplitude frequencies and SMPTE isn't apples to apples. The hump in SMPTE probably means that weaker high-frequency signals can suffer some in the presence of stronger low-frequency signals, but the absolute IMD products are still very low relative to full scale, and you can't really crank-up your amp to make them audible as you will blow up your speakers due to those stronger low-frequency components present, so the IMD products will stay at or below your amp's noise floor in practice. I have a feeling the hump that the SMPTE reveals is more or less a type of red-herring.

 

[solderdude]

Perhaps I am not getting this right but in the plot below we see the following things:

A 60Hz tone at -37dB and a second one at 7kHz at -51dB. Now consider Phon curves and one can see the 60Hz tone is not heard that loud. The 7kHz is though. At around 180Hz there is something at -118dB. The difference is 67dB opposite the 7kHz.
Could be audible.
Now consider that some would use this DAC to power active speakers or power amps and are using the internal volume control then the -118dB could be audible when the 7kHz is at say 90dB SPL.

The reason (I think) that the -27dB multitone is nice and clean is that it actually is merely -7dB removed from 0dB FSD.
We start to clearly see the IMD hump effect at the mentioned -37dB for 60Hz so the multitone tests should have peaks around -37dB and not -27 dB before it starts to show.
At least that's what I think.

 

[gvl]

But if the 7kHz is at 90dB SPL then the 60Hz tone is at 104dB SPL, right? That's pretty loud so may not be a realistic listening scenario.

Edit: I see what you say about multi-tone at -27dB now that I read how SMPTE is done.

 

[dropbear]

Sorry, forgot to mention that there is a remote.

Did you happen to try if the remote can switch between line outputs (so only RCA or XLR is active, so no bridged mode)?

 

[amirm]

Did you happen to try if the remote can switch between line outputs (so only RCA or XLR is active, so no bridged mode)?

I did not use the remote but it is customary for both outputs to be active at once.

 

[solderdude]

But if the 7kHz is at 90dB SPL then the 60Hz tone is at 104dB SPL, right?

The 60Hz tone will be at 104dB but is around 94 Phon and the 7kHz will be at around 90 Phon (acc. to 2003 equal loudness curves)
But yes it is loud. 180Hz @ 27 Phon may be just masked or not and perhaps and could just be audible ?

That's why I would suggest to have a look at multitone at much lower levels than tested now. In that case the signal/garbage ratio could well be smaller in a certain range.

 

[pos]

@amirm , any plan on testing the AES3 inputs?

 

[dropbear]

I did not use the remote but it is customary for both outputs to be active at once.

I have also noticed that, but for just DAC...frankly, with so many desktop setups with additional headamp and powered speakers (studio monitors almost exclusively have controls at back) that should be an option - I have just recently noticed Topping is handling this nicely, D70, DX7 Pro and it seems D90 also has this - three modes - RCA only, XLR only, RCA+XLR.

 

[Soniclife]

I hope Wolf can get his own forum, or sub section. I missed a few of his reviews because they get buried in the already convoluted forum naming scheme as is.

It's worth clicking on the reviews link from time to time, to catch up on what you missed. The reviews from anyone should get promoted the front page.

 

[amirm]

@amirm , any plan on testing the AES3 inputs?

What test you want run on it? Jitter?

 

[Soniclife]

That's why I would suggest to have a look at multitone at much lower levels than tested now. In that case the signal/garbage ratio could well be smaller in a certain range.

That sounds like a very interesting test, I'm struggling to get my head around exactly how likely the hump is to be audible, so anything that visualises it sounds good to me.

I liked you idea of recording a perfect DAC, and this one which is perfect with hump for ABX and other testing.

 

[solderdude]

IMHO the best way to check for audibility is using the ears and ABX test.
While plots say a lot I sometimes wonder if it is or is not audible.
Don't have any (humped) ESS devices so can't record it myself.
This DAC seems to be the perfect device because of the very low noise level.