So basically all daps are worthless shit?

[Deleted member 43123]

So, it could just as well be a Spotify issue on your phone or/and a problem with 4G. Or your bias towards the DAP.

It made me realise that while using Spotify with 4G it plays in High Quality but on WIFI it plays in Very High Quality. Something I had never realised with the dongle but I noticed straight away with my DAP. I now switched my app config to actually use Very High Quality also on 4G.

As for the bias point, I won't reply since I don't understand what you mean at all.

 

[monkeyboy]

Here is a good summary of DAPs

Hi-Res DAPs comparison chart 2021

The new 2022 version is now available! Hi-Res Portable DAPs comparison chart 2022 https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hi-res-portable-daps-comparison-chart-2022.961903/ Hi there, This is the latest version of DAPs comparison charts which I created and updates continuously. If you are looking for...

www.head-fi.org

 

[Deleted member 43123]

Here is a good summary of DAPs

Hi-Res DAPs comparison chart 2021

The new 2022 version is now available! Hi-Res Portable DAPs comparison chart 2022 https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hi-res-portable-daps-comparison-chart-2022.961903/ Hi there, This is the latest version of DAPs comparison charts which I created and updates continuously. If you are looking for...

www.head-fi.org

Wow, amazing, thanks for sharing.

 

[RHO]

It made me realise that while using Spotify with 4G it plays in High Quality but on WIFI it plays in Very High Quality. Something I had never realised with the dongle but I noticed straight away with my DAP. I now switched my app config to actually use Very High Quality also on 4G.

As for the bias point, I won't reply since I don't understand what you mean at all.

You created an account to complain about subjective experiences being stated as fact. That was the first post you made on this forum.
Your second post on this forum is stating that the Apple dongle sounds bad ... based on your subjective experiences (contradicting objective measurements). Then you claim the Apple dongle sounds so bad compared to your DAP, that you threw it away ... based on your subjective experiences.
Now I wonder if you are biased towards the DAP and subjectively experience the dongle as much worse sounding ... while objectively it could be the other way around.

 

[Deleted member 43123]

You created an account to complain about subjective experiences being stated as fact. That was the first post you made on this forum.
Your second post on this forum is stating that the Apple dongle sounds bad ... based on your subjective experiences (contradicting objective measurements). Then you claim the Apple dongle sounds so bad compared to your DAP, that you threw it away ... based on your subjective experiences.
Now I wonder if you are biased towards the DAP and subjectively experience the dongle as much worse sounding ... while objectively it could be the other way around.

"Haha, yeah I created that username ironically in response to the way some people gave some insanely subjective opinions as hard facts ..
In the end the world of sound is so subjective .."

You could go further and read all my posts.. In this one I aknoledge that sound is totally subjective. So there's no objective way to say wether my DAC or the dongle is better I guess. But from my perspective they don't even play in the same category.

The difference between my subjectivity and the one of others, is that I'm not here saying all people using the Apple dongle are stupid and they should buy a DAP. That is the reason why I created my account. Not because people have a different opinion than mine, but because they aggressivily say that those who don't agree have shit in their ears.

Now once again, I don't understand what you mean with bias.. Is it assuming I like the sound of the dap better because I want to like it better ? That would be a quite ridicoulus claim. I've tried so many different sound setup over the past years, being very passionate about music, and I know when my music sounds better to me or not, without being influenced by other factors.

 

[RHO]

You could go further and read all my posts.. In this one I aknoledge that sound is totally subjective. So there's no objective way to say wether my DAC or the dongle is better I guess. But from my perspective they don't even play in the same category.

Well, I have to disagree with you there. Sound quality is not at all entirely subjective. (as proven in many blind tests)

The difference between my subjectivity and the one of others, is that I'm not here saying all people using the Apple dongle are stupid and they should buy a DAP. That is the reason why I created my account. Not because people have a different opinion than mine, but because they aggressivily say that those who don't agree have shit in their ears.

OK, I can agree with you on that. Even if something is objectively better than an other thing does not mean no-one should or can like the worse thing more than the better one. And there are things that can be just preference and how much weight you put on certain properties of a device.

Now once again, I don't understand what you mean with bias.. Is it assuming I like the sound of the dap better because I want to like it better ? That would be a quite ridicoulus claim. I've tried so many different sound setup over the past years, being very passionate about music, and I know when my music sounds better to me or not, without being influenced by other factors.

So, you compared the DAP against the dongle blind?
The amount of setups you have compared sighted over the years tells us nothing about your ability to detect differences in sound at all. Those are stories and bare no weight when claiming something sounds better than something else. Test it blind and that changes.

 

[sq225917]

Your mistaking measured performance for personal preference. Some people love r2r dacs and audionote cd players, go figure.

Individuals aren't preference trends.

 

[Deleted member 43123]

Well, I have to disagree with you there. Sound quality is not at all entirely subjective. (as proven in many blind tests)

OK, I can agree with you on that. Even if something is objectively better than an other thing does not mean no-one should or can like the worse thing more than the better one. And there are things that can be just preference and how much weight you put on certain properties of a device.
So, you compared the DAP against the dongle blind?
The amount of setups you have compared sighted over the years tells us nothing about your ability to detect differences in sound at all. Those are stories and bare no weight when claiming something sounds better than something else. Test it blind and that changes.

I haven't blind tested those configs, and it's a good point. I would need a patient friend for that though, but I'm willing to give that a try eventually.

With regards to the amount of setup I have compared over the years, I do think it is an important aspect, because it has taught me the sound I like. Once again, I don't mean the best objective sound, I mean the one that works for me.

Now regarding my current comparison (Apple dongle vs. Sony NWA55), maybe it all comes down to a different sound texture, or more power, I don't know what that is.. But I would love you show me some studies that show that the dongle is "objectively" better that most daps out there, cause that's clearly not my experience.

 

[RHO]

@sq225917 & @myopinionisthetruth : There is a difference between preference of sound when there is really something to hear and imagining to hear a difference in sound a picking the one you are biased towards.
If there is really (objectively) an audible difference, you can claim (subjectively) to prefer whatever you like. We could conclude that you fall outside the norm or not. And in itself there's nothing wrong with either. You like what you like.
But in this case I doubt there is really (objectively) a clearly audible difference and the norm would suggest that if there is really an audible difference you would (subjectively) most likely prefer the dongle.
So test it blind and see if there really is a difference. And after that you can claim to like the one better than the other.

 

[antcollinet]

Anyone can decide they like one thing more than another with our without a blind test. As long as they don't try to suggest that preference should have meaning for anyone else or state it as a fact. (X objectively has terrible sound)

 

[RHO]

Anyone can decide they like one thing more than another with our without a blind test. As long as they don't try to suggest that preference should have meaning for anyone else.

That's what I said.
I see my point doesn't come across.

The situation as I see it:
Person specifically creates an account to say: "You can not claim a is better than b because subjectively you like a."
Next post of same person: "b is better than a because I subjectively like b better."
Strange, no?

 

[antcollinet]

That's what I said.
I see my point doesn't come across....

I read the last line of your post:

@sq225917 & @myopinionisthetruth :.....So test it blind and see if there really is a difference. And after that you can claim to like the one better than the other.

Suggesting you can't claim a preference unless you have done a blind test. I disagree.


I do agree that complaining with one's first post that people post subjective opinions as fact, and then in the next stating an objective opinion as fact is....inconsistent.

 

[Deleted member 43123]

That's what I said.
I see my point doesn't come across.

The situation as I see it:
Person specifically creates an account to say: "You can not claim a is better than b because subjectively you like a."
Next post of same person: "b is better than a because I subjectively like b better."
Strange, no?

Hahah, ok that's gonna be my last post and I'll delete this short lived account because this conversation isn't going anywhere ^^

I never said the dongle is OBJECTIVELY horrible.. How could I, I don't believe there's objectivity in comparing those 2. I shared MY OWN PERSONAL experience with it, which is that it's the worse piece of audio tech I've owned. I (personally once again) found it sounds like shit, and would like people to quit explaining me I'm irrational for not liking it and I should look at a fantasised objectivity value here. Please define what objectively better means then, because, to me, it just means it sounds better to my ears, which the dongle doesn't at all.

As for you point not coming accross, this what I hear from your point: "Yeah people should not blame others for liking a over b, even though b is objectively better". What I hear here is no less than: people who like a better can like whatever they want, but it's irrational. Couldn't agree less.

 

[RHO]

Suggesting you can't claim a preference unless you have done a blind test. I disagree.

That depends. You can have a preference but then you should be totally aware that it could be totally based on you imagining things.
Here was claimed that because there is quite an extensive experience with listening to different sets the heard difference was certainly real.

 

[RHO]

Hahah, ok that's gonna be my last post and I'll delete this short lived account because this conversation isn't going anywhere ^^

I never said the dongle is OBJECTIVELY horrible.. How could I, I don't believe there's objectivity in comparing those 2. I shared MY OWN PERSONAL experience with it, which is that it's the worse piece of audio tech I've owned. I (personally once again) found it sounds like shit, and would like people to quit explaining me I'm irrational for not liking it and I should look at a fantasised objectivity value here. Please define what objectively better means then, because, to me, it just means it sounds better to my ears, which the dongle doesn't at all.

As for you point not coming accross, this what I hear from your point: "Yeah people should not blame others for liking a over b, even though b is objectively better". What I hear here is no less than: people who like a better can like whatever they want, but it's irrational. Couldn't agree less.

You seem to have difficulty understanding the difference between objectively and subjectively.
"It sounds better to your ears" is a subjective statement.
a has better measured performance than b is a objective statement (when you can show the meaurments, which we can for the Apple dongle and also so more "high-end" versions of the DAP you mention).
You can also objectively state you like b better than a when you test it blind and the results show you consistently picked a and b apart and preferred b.

 

[antcollinet]

That depends. You can have a preference but then you should be totally aware that it could be totally based on you imagining things.
Here was claimed that because there is quite an extensive experience with listening to different sets the heard difference was certainly real.

And perfectly entitled to that claim/belief, insofar as it only impacts the person believing it. They should expect to be challenged though if they state it as objective reality - which is what has happened in this case.

 

[sq225917]

I'd love a new dap, but honestly I just want something that plays music with great battery life and never needs updating. The rest is pointless hoopla and explains why I'm using a ten year old ipod with sdxc card conversion board.