The nice thing when you get convincing sound from speakers is that none of this fancy engineering fooling around is necessary, as in this Smyth rig - all the processing is done in your brain, automatically. If the system is working at less than the required competence then it falls back to conventional audio, meaning critical sweet spot, painstaking positioning of speakers, lots of room treatment, etc; at required competence of replay and beyond the brain goes into automatic, courtesy of the ASA thing, and compensates for everything: you can bounce around the room, hang from the ceiling, imitate a fly having a walk on a wall - and the musical event, presentation remains locked into a space relative to the speakers plane.
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Smyth Realiser
- Thread starter Purité Audio
- Start date
A smartphone/iPod/iPad A pair of headphones and silly thing on your head ... Job done. I'd go for that, £120 . Not £1400 for a box that's not nessersary.
I would even wear the silly thing on my head with a full pair of headphones on the train.. It could fit on the head band, but would need batteries?? Wired connection??
I love the idea of multichannel with headphones, for gaming it would be ace! Not that I do that now I am old and respectable.
I would even wear the silly thing on my head with a full pair of headphones on the train.. It could fit on the head band, but would need batteries?? Wired connection??
I love the idea of multichannel with headphones, for gaming it would be ace! Not that I do that now I am old and respectable.
That's a lawsuit waiting to happen..That's already done:
Keith_W
Major Contributor
Guys, if any of you bothered to read THIS (link on how the Smyth Realizer works), there would be much less argument and back and forth in this thread. It appears that what most of you have done is read the front page, did not dig deeper into that website, then come to your own conclusions that it's all a bunch of marketing drivel. Some of you read so superficially that you questioned why it had to be a hardware solution.
This is how it works, in a nutshell:
1. Basic premise: The Head Related Transfer Function (HRTF) varies between individuals - it depends on: shape of head, distance between ears, distance to upper torso, shape of pinna, shape of auditory canal, etc. The reason why headphones sound artificial is because the HRTF is not taken into account, nor are headphones capable of generating room cues.
2. They insert a pair of microphones into earplugs, and put these in your ear. You then sit in a room with a sound field generated by 5.1, or 7.1 speakers, and a variety of test tones are played, with your head pointed in different positions. This determines both the HRTF and the sound character of the room. As you may realize, each individual who wishes to use this system needs to have their own set of personal measurements taken.
3. They use this to generate a correction filter which is mixed in to your audio with DSP. THIS is what you listen to when you listen to your headphones on a train. Even if you lose the benefit of head tracking, you still gain the benefit of HRTF correction and insertion of room cues.
4. When you are at home, the system incorporates a head tracker so that it can change the mix of the soundfield depending on the position of your head.
I hope that clears it up.
This is how it works, in a nutshell:
1. Basic premise: The Head Related Transfer Function (HRTF) varies between individuals - it depends on: shape of head, distance between ears, distance to upper torso, shape of pinna, shape of auditory canal, etc. The reason why headphones sound artificial is because the HRTF is not taken into account, nor are headphones capable of generating room cues.
2. They insert a pair of microphones into earplugs, and put these in your ear. You then sit in a room with a sound field generated by 5.1, or 7.1 speakers, and a variety of test tones are played, with your head pointed in different positions. This determines both the HRTF and the sound character of the room. As you may realize, each individual who wishes to use this system needs to have their own set of personal measurements taken.
3. They use this to generate a correction filter which is mixed in to your audio with DSP. THIS is what you listen to when you listen to your headphones on a train. Even if you lose the benefit of head tracking, you still gain the benefit of HRTF correction and insertion of room cues.
4. When you are at home, the system incorporates a head tracker so that it can change the mix of the soundfield depending on the position of your head.
I hope that clears it up.
Purite Keith made no mention of having this personal calibration done.. Or did I miss that.
I personally did get the point about it simulating the effect of the body and how that translates into the difference between speakers and normal headphone listening..
So if they could devise a system to approximate the calibration so it can be done remotely then indeed it could be a software plug in.
I never said the product was marketing drivel..
Even Kal who has used this device made reference to the possibility of it being software orientated.
The calibration element seems totally infeasible mind you, without wanting to read the whole website just how do thousands of customers get calibrated??
Um..
I personally did get the point about it simulating the effect of the body and how that translates into the difference between speakers and normal headphone listening..
So if they could devise a system to approximate the calibration so it can be done remotely then indeed it could be a software plug in.
I never said the product was marketing drivel..
Even Kal who has used this device made reference to the possibility of it being software orientated.
The calibration element seems totally infeasible mind you, without wanting to read the whole website just how do thousands of customers get calibrated??
Um..
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I do not know exactly to what you are referring. I do believe that it can be done in asoftware-only vehicle but that is only speculation (and hope).
I did a calibration in less than a 1/2 hour. In addition, my calibration was reasonably suitable for my wife who found it quite amazing although, admittedly, her interest in things audio is less intense than mine. She was actually fooled when I switched from my loudspeaker system to the Smyth and back.
I just read the FAQ and now am even more confused lol!
It says we must calibrate our selfs at home... But I don't have a surround sound system at home! Bizarre. Most audiophile as we know have quite dodgy room response and for the most part have never measured it. So the fact we colour our headphone expirance my calibrating in a most likely poor acoustic environment seems totally bonkers to me.
We all seem to want to take the room away not add it in..
There are too many variables , calibration should be done in a ideal listening environment but that's not practical so you do it at home.
It says we must calibrate our selfs at home... But I don't have a surround sound system at home! Bizarre. Most audiophile as we know have quite dodgy room response and for the most part have never measured it. So the fact we colour our headphone expirance my calibrating in a most likely poor acoustic environment seems totally bonkers to me.
We all seem to want to take the room away not add it in..
There are too many variables , calibration should be done in a ideal listening environment but that's not practical so you do it at home.
I was referring to this Kal , I presumed you to have advanced understanding so took it as red that the software avenue was a practical reality.
Keith_W
Major Contributor
You don't need to, although it would be ideal. They have a "generic" HRTF that is obtained by putting earplugs into a dummy and using that to take measurements. Obviously it won't be as good as a personal measurement, but it is much better than no correction at all.
And I didn't say that you did
I am sure that you could sort of get there with software only. But their goal is to provide an IMMERSIVE 3D experience, for all sorts of applications. These are not listed on their website, but I am sure it could be implemented if the tech takes off:
- You are a computer gamer, and you hear someone sneaking up behind you. You turn your head to the right, and the sound in your right ear gets louder.
- You are a military drone operator. Radar signals from the drone can be translated into directional cues for your headphones.
- You are a submarine sonar operator.
If you want to simulate a concert hall, where you sit for hours staring at the stage without moving your head much, I grant that there may not be much benefit from head tracking.
I get that this forum is targeted towards audiophiles. But audiophiles are not the only people who use headphones, you know
Something for them to figure out, I guess.
By the way, I have come across a system like this before - BACCH 3D.
This device seems to advocate its ability to add the acoustic of your listening environment, this for most audiophiles and causal home audio people is a negative as their rooms likely prohibit performance not enhance it.
I remain convince these guys had a great product but are totally unable to come up with a coherent strategy to get it out in the market place in any significant numbers.
Keith_W
Major Contributor
Not to mention, if you already have a well sorted listening room with 5.1 or 7.1 you are less likely to need these headphones, unless you want the same experience to be portable (e.g. when you are sitting in front of your computer).
Ideally they should have a standardized lab which you visit and have your own personal measurements done. But then, they are a small outfit. They may have the technology, but not the means to market it or promote widespread adoption.
What they could do is ship the system with a "generic" correction filter, a bit like choosing a T-shirt. You provide them with information on your head circumference, shape of head, height, build, gender, and they send you a generic correction filter that gets you in the ballpark. This may work better than personal measurements taken by thousands of inexperienced people in environments that you have no control. And then having to endure internet feedback from thousands of people who say it is horrible and does not work.
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Yes and not to mention there is a huge trend in headphone orientated audiophiles, just the target audience but for the fact many don't own speakers lol
Bit of a problem ...your target audience don't have a hifi to calibrate it with.. They use headphones lol they won't go for the idea of a much poorer generic calibration , who would?
However those very very very few that do have well setup surround systems and want portable and stationary headphone listening are ideal.. Bloody small market audience.
I was confused, the more I understand the product and how it's being marketed the more confusing and completely bonkers the business plan seems.
Thank you for your patience in explaining the functionality everyone..
The idea for the product is that you have a good surround system but you want to also experience it elsewhere in the house, or in the same room without making noise (e.g. solo night-time viewing). In pro space they allow multiple parties scattered around the world to make the same edit decisions based on one (reference) room.
Very small market that amir. Much better off not mentioning the calibration but for a optimisation process that's not strictly nessersary but gives the last 5% etc.
Potentially it's a great product that would enhance everyone's enjoyment of headphone listening. ... Potentially.
I highlighted the bit that could be great but is again a totally different application.. We need a system to give a universal reference acoustic for recording environments. That part seems excellent.
If I get one I'm going round amirs to calibrate it! If your down south go to Ray's , his measured room response looks good.. Don't come to my house though lol
Maybe I could break into the IMAX and calibrate it in there ... Oh it closed down and is now a aquarium
... Oh it closed down and is now a aquarium
It is a small company so I suspect they are fine with that. They have the whole category to themselves. The generic implementation of simulated surround is very crowded with big boys like Dolby.
Speaking of Dolby, the founder of Smyth (Stephen Smyth) is the same person who originally designed the (lossy) DTS codec that has been with us since the DVD. And his partner (Steve Cheung) was the one who got it into AVRs of all kind. So pretty good pedigree.
Meh, only a handful of people are going to ... Realise
More like possible.
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