Smyth Realiser

[Thomas savage]

If you turn your head in relation to your speakers, something happens.

They translate that to headphones so that the headphones sound like speakers.

Which may or may not be of value to you, the lizzener.

As for jogging... They could have an initial reference direction, which would be good till you turned a corner. Maybe a reference reset would be useful. Maybe strange running laps.

Yes I totally understand the use with speakers, it's self explanatory.

But the headphone application is confused , it makes no sense to me. No speakers , no tv just headphones but you need a tracker??? And it works if you record the output from the device and play it back on your iPod when on the tube train??

Bizarre totally bizarre. You head won't be moving on the tube train like it will at home?? It's confused.

I am sure you don't need tracking with just a pair of headphones.

You want to be in the sweet spot at home with your speakers right? So you want the out put of the speakers to change in time as your head moves.. This makes total sense , I knew about this system years ago but it was very expensive.

So if you use headphones you have negated the problem of your head moving and taking you outside the ideal performance window in relation to a speaker set up.. where is it advantageous to then implement the failing of a speaker set up.. The headphones are on your head, static.

It makes no sense, you head movement won't be a repeatable event so how on earth if it works as amir says can you then record the out put and still maintain effect when on a tube train or at a bus stop.. Your head won't be moving as it did in the original event.

Weird.. Very weird indeed.

 

[RayDunzl]

The basic idea, I think, is that sound comes from directions, and if you move your head, there is a cranial disconnect if the vectors to the sounds don't change, so they are exploring that concept.

It's a gimmick, like everything else is, until you get used to having it around, then it becomes a necessity and is commoditized and becomes the new normal and you think you need it.

I am sure you don't need tracking with just a pair of headphones.

We have plenty of stuff we don't need. Want some of mine? I have three households worth of goods under one roof. Lots of duplication. I have a sofa in the bathroom.

 

[Thomas savage]

Well no ones going to be wearing tracking kit on the tube or even at home. Not in any great numbers... The tracking would need to be integral to the headphones.

Wireless headphones with intergraded tracker, this I understand. For some phycoacoustic bizarreness ok.

They won't sell any, lol.

 

[amirm]

Even if there is no visual reference? Pure audio..

Yes, pure audio.

 

[amirm]

The tracking device is quite small and lightweight. It is just an IR receiver. That is, it is lightweight compared to the weight of the Stax headphones.

 

[RayDunzl]

Well no ones going to be wearing tracking kit on the tube or even at home.

You've probably got one in your pocket right now.

"Modern mobile phones come with a variety of sensors that automate or easy many of our daily tasks. This field takes into account the presence of an accelerometer, a gyroscope, a compass, and a barometer."

 

[Thomas savage]

You've probably got one in your pocket right now.

"Modern mobile phones come with a variety of sensors that automate or easy many of our daily tasks. This field takes into account the presence of an accelerometer, a gyroscope, a compass, and a barometer."

On ones sweed? In public?

Maybe they can put it in the headphones.. Team up with beats lol

 

[RayDunzl]

swede? suede?

?

 

[Thomas savage]

swede? suede?

?

Sweed...,

Northan for cranium.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Yes I totally understand the use with speakers, it's self explanatory.

But the headphone application is confused , it makes no sense to me. No speakers , no tv just headphones but you need a tracker??? And it works if you record the output from the device and play it back on your iPod when on the tube train??

Bizarre totally bizarre. You head won't be moving on the tube train like it will at home?? It's confused.

I am sure you don't need tracking with just a pair of headphones.

You want to be in the sweet spot at home with your speakers right? So you want the out put of the speakers to change in time as your head moves.. This makes total sense , I knew about this system years ago but it was very expensive.

So if you use headphones you have negated the problem of your head moving and taking you outside the ideal performance window in relation to a speaker set up.. where is it advantageous to then implement the failing of a speaker set up.. The headphones are on your head, static.

It makes no sense, you head movement won't be a repeatable event so how on earth if it works as amir says can you then record the out put and still maintain effect when on a tube train or at a bus stop.. Your head won't be moving as it did in the original event.

Weird.. Very weird indeed.

I think you have missed quite a few important points and are erroneously assuming many things Smyth are not. For example, you are thinking portable with earbuds and the like. They are not thinking that way at all. Forget the tube and bus stop. It is in no way designed for that. It is designed for high fidelity in a room, simulating a high quality stereo or Mch system. Or, simulating a professional monitoring speaker system and room as used in mixing and mastering.

If sitting in your chair with loudspeakers, the phantom image generated by the speakers stays fixed in front of you when you turn your head, but your perception of it changes with your ear angular position. That is what they are simulating via the head tracker in a way identical to what you would hear via normal speakers. Normal earphones do not do that and move the phantom image fixed inside your head completely unlike listening to loudspeakers.

Further, they are attempting to completely overcome the headphone "inside your head" image by also including aural cues to the room in which it was calibrated and the interchannel crosstalk we normally hear live or with speakers. Missing that and a number of other issues make normal headphone listening fatiguing and unnatural. Most all recordings are engineered to be heard via speakers, unless they are binaural recordings, which are relatively rare. There is a big difference. This is a fatiguing distortion normal headphones impose with most recordings, but which Smyth overcomes by simulating the speakers in your room.

I think you need to dig a bit deeper in order to understand. And, you should try them if you can.

 

[RayDunzl]

Northan for cranium.

Oh, noggin.

 

[Thomas savage]

I think you have missed quite a few important points and are erroneously assuming many things Smyth are not. For example, you are thinking portable with earbuds and the like. They are not thinking that way at all. Forget the tube and bus stop. It is in no way designed for that. It is designed for high fidelity in a room, simulating a high quality stereo or Mch system. Or, simulating a professional monitoring speaker system and room as used in mixing and mastering.

If sitting in your chair with loudspeakers, the phantom image generated by the speakers stays fixed in front of you when you turn your head, but your perception of it changes with your ear angular position. That is what they are simulating via the head tracker in a way identical to what you would hear via normal speakers. Normal earphones do not do that and move the phantom image fixed inside your head completely unlike listening to loudspeakers.

Further, they are attempting to completely overcome the headphone "inside your head" image by also including aural cues to the room in which it was calibrated and the interchannel crosstalk we normally hear live or with speakers. Missing that and a number of other issues make normal headphone listening fatiguing and unnatural. Most all recordings are engineered to be heard via speakers, unless they are binaural recordings, which are relatively rare. There is a big difference. This is a fatiguing distortion normal headphones impose with most recordings, but which Smyth overcomes by simulating the speakers in your room.

I think you need to dig a bit deeper in order to understand. And, you should try them if you can.

Hey its in the literature, you can make it portable by recording the outputs after 'processing' and storing the result on a iPod etc.

If that's so, then you don't need to track you head in real time.. You just need to apply a generic processing.

I did not write the ad copy, this is the route of my confusion. You either need dynamic tracking of your ACUTAL head movement in real time or you don't.

I don't have a issue listening via headphones, the image seems to be in the middle of my head.. I thought headphones were superior in this regard so tbh this all seems a bit of a gimmick.

Kal seems to agree with me regarding the possibility to do this kind of thing with software.

That was my main point.

 

[Thomas savage]

As you all seem to think I am bonkers and missing the point here is the bit from the web copy! Say precisely what I have lol

iPods and other personal players

While it would be impractical to carry a Realiser around, the output of the Realiser can be recorded into a device such as an iPod. For the optimum effect, the listener can make a one-time measurement through the ear buds to correct for the bud/ear interaction and to improve the earbud response. Then the mobile listener can enjoy the full dimensionality, and much of the quality, of a good surround speaker system while mobile. Since there is no picture and the listener is constantly changing direction, head tracking is unnecessary.

 

[Purité Audio]

Some of us have been asking this for years and I do know that the Smyth brothers have been contacted by people looking to make the software to license for inclusion in processors/AVRs. Apparently, they are not ready/willing to do so.

Interestingly the Smyth brothers told me that they initially wanted to license but that there was no or little uptake.
keith

 

[Purité Audio]

You should try the system Thomas it is really fantastic , it is just like sitting in your room listening to your system but you are wearing headphones.
The sound comes from the left you turn your head to the left and the sound is in the centre.
When you first hear the system you swear that the sound is coming from the speakers but it isn't it is from the headphones.
really incredible.
Keith

 

[Thomas savage]

You should try the system Thomas it is really fantastic , it is just like sitting in your room listening to your system but you are wearing headphones.
The sound comes from the left you turn your head to the left and the sound is in the centre.
When you first hear the system you swear that the sound is coming from the speakers but it isn't it is from the headphones.
really incredible.
Keith

Yea, I just thought the changing sound from speakers as you move your head was a bad thing lol

But simulation of the effects of sound bouncing around our bodies , effects of our sweeds etc on the end perception of the auditory experience makes perfect sense to me.

You don't need to tell me twice, I hate speakers lol they just break constantly, can't reproduce the desired frequency range without being pushed beyond operating parameters.

It's ok if you just listen to 'audiophile' stuff lol but contemporary program at decent SPL... Forget it.if £25000 don't do it I give up.

Maybe headphones are the way forward.

 

[amirm]

Note that the headphones can't do what a sub does so that is a big loss for movie experience. I missed that when I tested Smyth system.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

As you all seem to think I am bonkers and missing the point here is the bit from the web copy! Say precisely what I have lol

iPods and other personal players

While it would be impractical to carry a Realiser around, the output of the Realiser can be recorded into a device such as an iPod. For the optimum effect, the listener can make a one-time measurement through the ear buds to correct for the bud/ear interaction and to improve the earbud response. Then the mobile listener can enjoy the full dimensionality, and much of the quality, of a good surround speaker system while mobile. Since there is no picture and the listener is constantly changing direction, head tracking is unnecessary.

Yes, the fertile imaginations of marketing types know no bounds. But, as is clear, this is a stab at the consumer market, but one which compromises the original design intentions of the Realizer and which requires the extra step of recording "the output of the Realiser into a device such as an iPod". That would provide some compromised, derived replica of the fundamental real time processing in Mch with head tracker, which has been its primary selling point to sound mastering engineers. This marketing copy might signify a shift in their emphasis from the pro to the consumer markets.

 

[Thomas savage]

Yes, the fertile imaginations of marketing types know no bounds. But, as is clear, this is a stab at the consumer market, but one which compromises the original design intentions of the Realizer and which requires the extra step of recording "the output of the Realiser into a device such as an iPod". That would provide some compromised, derived replica of the fundamental real time processing in Mch with head tracker, which has been its primary selling point to sound mastering engineers. This marketing copy might signify a shift in their emphasis from the pro to the consumer markets.

The logical step to assume is why not just apply this at source ,like have a plug in on Amazon music player....

That's where I was on page one lol

They seem to have a product they have tried to market but to little success and are now trying to understand/develop/exploit new markets but with very little business acumen.

It will die a death, those that hear it might like it but that's no where near enough. They need a coherent marketing strategy, but first they need to identify a. The best market/consumer base for the product b. The best version or mutation of the principal of their technology so they can reach that market efficiently.

They are managing non of that by what I have read. By the time they do we will all have plug ins on our phones to emulate this effect. Might not be quite as good but it will be out in the market place.

Real shame.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Hey its in the literature, you can make it portable by recording the outputs after 'processing' and storing the result on a iPod etc.

If that's so, then you don't need to track you head in real time.. You just need to apply a generic processing.

I did not write the ad copy, this is the route of my confusion. You either need dynamic tracking of your ACUTAL head movement in real time or you don't.

You need it IF you want to accurately simulated a stable soundstage. Inveterate earphone/headphone/mobile listeners do not seem to care about that, so they don't need it.

I don't have a issue listening via headphones, the image seems to be in the middle of my head..I thought headphones were superior in this regard so tbh this all seems a bit of a gimmick.

That's what I hate about headphone listening but..... this is not a gimmick. It does simulate a superb multichannel listening experience.

Kal seems to agree with me regarding the possibility to do this kind of thing with software.
That was my main point.

Anything's possible.