Smyth Realiser as AV Processor

[searcher]

Prompted by an old comment I saw in another thread I looked into getting a Smyth Realiser as the solution to the problem of poor surround processor options until you get to the $10000+ price point with Trinnov. Specifically, they have a rackmount version with AES digital outputs which seems rare even on surround processors which are typically analog XLR outputs. This means you can feed a downstream DAC of your choice or even Genelec SAM monitors directly, avoiding the pitfalls of AV DACs as we've seen from Amir's measurements.
Is my intuition right on this? Are there any potential issues going this route other than the relatively "beta" state of the Realiser? If I am going to be using Genelec monitors this must be a better option than comparably priced processors like the Monoprice HTP-1 or JBL SDP-55? Additionally of course you get the headline features of the Realiser which is the headphone processing.
Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[MarsianC#]

Availability? Software issues?
A16 Realiser 2U PRO-AES3
I like the idea, going full digital to speakers is the way to go with GLM. Dante would be super nice, especially considering cable managment.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Prompted by an old comment I saw in another thread I looked into getting a Smyth Realiser as the solution to the problem of poor surround processor options until you get to the $10000+ price point with Trinnov. Specifically, they have a rackmount version with AES digital outputs which seems rare even on surround processors which are typically analog XLR outputs. This means you can feed a downstream DAC of your choice or even Genelec SAM monitors directly, avoiding the pitfalls of AV DACs as we've seen from Amir's measurements.
Is my intuition right on this? Are there any potential issues going this route other than the relatively "beta" state of the Realiser? If I am going to be using Genelec monitors this must be a better option than comparably priced processors like the Monoprice HTP-1 or JBL SDP-55? Additionally of course you get the headline features of the Realiser which is the headphone processing.
Thanks in advance for your help.

Major issue using it this way relates to its lack of control of individual speakers (no individual eq, control of relative volume level, or ability to adjust for relative distance of each speaker), also the output volume of the analog is like 1.2 volts, not 2, so you may have difficulty driving your amps to clipping levels. No SINAD measurements exist on the quality of the 16 analog outputs either, and finally the outputs are paired so you will need splitter cables to use them,

 

[BDWoody]

Major issue using it this way relates to its lack of control of individual speakers (no individual eq, control of relative volume level, or ability to adjust for relative distance of each speaker), also the output volume of the analog is like 1.2 volts, not 2, so you may have difficulty driving your amps to clipping levels. No SINAD measurements exist on the quality of the 16 analog outputs either, and finally the outputs are paired so you will need splitter cables to use them,

It looks like the pro version has AES/EBU digital out for up to 16 channels, so you could feed them into something like the minidsp DDRC-88D for 8 channels of Dirac, or 2 of them for 16 channels.

I'm guessing they would have to adhere to the HDMI restrictions on how digital signals are dealt with, but assuming that's handled well, might be an option, depending on how much the thing is.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

It looks like the pro version has AES/EBU digital out for up to 16 channels, so you could feed them into something like the minidsp DDRC-88D for 8 channels of Dirac, or 2 of them for 16 channels.

I'm guessing they would have to adhere to the HDMI restrictions on how digital signals are dealt with, but assuming that's handled well, might be an option, depending on how much the thing is.

The one with the pro outputs runs around $5k, I think. Mine cost $4k with the analog outs. The DDRC-88D is a problematic box, introduces lots and lots of jitter per Amir's review of it.

 

[BDWoody]

The one with the pro outputs runs around $5k, I think. Mine cost $4k with the analog outs. The DDRC-88D is a problematic box, introduces lots and lots of jitter per Amir's review of it.

I didn't see the 88D review...? Only the 88A, or did I miss it?

 

[MarsianC#]

Measuring something like a 88D with a really good DAC hooked up via AES would be interesting. I guess it doesn't change a lot, maybe a bit more jitter.

 

[BDWoody]

Measuring something like a 88D with a really good DAC hooked up via AES would be interesting. I guess it doesn't change a lot, maybe a bit more jitter.

I have run the 88D into my JBLs' AES in, and didn't notice anything I would have identified as objectionable. It's also gone into my D70, again with no issues.

The idea of keeping it all digital has it's appeal, especially since my theater speakers all have AES in.

 

[Vasr]

If I am going to be using Genelec monitors this must be a better option than comparably priced processors like the Monoprice HTP-1 or JBL SDP-55?

This question makes sense only in the context of what content source(s) you will be using. You don't decide what to get based on what speakers you have alone!

If for watching content with DRM via HDMI, the digital outs with the units won't be available or will be severely downgraded. There is no way to get hi-def digital out of any box legally from HDCP-controlled content.

If you don't need it for content with DRM and/or have other means to strip DRM, then this is a very expensive box to do processing.

If you are looking for synthesized surround of 2-channel content (for many in this group, this is the only concept of surround), then its processing might be good but you get plenty of sound cards for much cheaper than can do the same from a PC for up to 8 channels. If you are looking for specialty processors with Auro3D etc., then you will be paying a huge premium for that feature getting a box most of which you won't be using.

Pick your core requirements and use cases first and then a solution that will satisfy it. The requirements vary a lot from person to person.

 

[Senior NEET Engineer]

I wonder if some here would prefer mono if that was the only option with 120 dB SINAD.

 

[Vasr]

I wonder if some here would prefer mono if that was the only option with 120 dB SINAD.

Some may not be listening to their equipment at all as long as they have 120db SINAD capability. The only listening would be when they hook up the latest SINAD upgrade purchase to see if it is working.

 

[searcher]

This question makes sense only in the context of what content source(s) you will be using. You don't decide what to get based on what speakers you have alone!

If for watching content with DRM via HDMI, the digital outs with the units won't be available or will be severely downgraded. There is no way to get hi-def digital out of any box legally from HDCP-controlled content.

If you don't need it for content with DRM and/or have other means to strip DRM, then this is a very expensive box to do processing.

If you are looking for synthesized surround of 2-channel content (for many in this group, this is the only concept of surround), then its processing might be good but you get plenty of sound cards for much cheaper than can do the same from a PC for up to 8 channels. If you are looking for specialty processors with Auro3D etc., then you will be paying a huge premium for that feature getting a box most of which you won't be using.

Pick your core requirements and use cases first and then a solution that will satisfy it. The requirements vary a lot from person to person.

Thanks a lot that is very helpful. In my case I'm mostly interested in DRM content as well as multichannel FLACs. Seems like the HDCP issue might kill this idea, I'm asking Smyth to clarify.

I realize there are cheaper units just for processing like you say, this was my idea to avoid getting a DAC entirely, and just use GLM. I don't need the synthesized surround as my content is multichannel.

 

[cputoaster]

This question makes sense only in the context of what content source(s) you will be using. You don't decide what to get based on what speakers you have alone!

If for watching content with DRM via HDMI, the digital outs with the units won't be available or will be severely downgraded. There is no way to get hi-def digital out of any box legally from HDCP-controlled content.

If you don't need it for content with DRM and/or have other means to strip DRM, then this is a very expensive box to do processing.

If you are looking for synthesized surround of 2-channel content (for many in this group, this is the only concept of surround), then its processing might be good but you get plenty of sound cards for much cheaper than can do the same from a PC for up to 8 channels. If you are looking for specialty processors with Auro3D etc., then you will be paying a huge premium for that feature getting a box most of which you won't be using.

Pick your core requirements and use cases first and then a solution that will satisfy it. The requirements vary a lot from person to person.

This is very interesting, so you are saying that if I would use the Realizer 16 pro AES3 for DRM content, it would not work? Does the same apply to others like the SDP-55 with Dante? Do you know where the limit is?

 

[phoenixdogfan]

This question makes sense only in the context of what content source(s) you will be using. You don't decide what to get based on what speakers you have alone!

If for watching content with DRM via HDMI, the digital outs with the units won't be available or will be severely downgraded. There is no way to get hi-def digital out of any box legally from HDCP-controlled content.

If you don't need it for content with DRM and/or have other means to strip DRM, then this is a very expensive box to do processing.

If you are looking for synthesized surround of 2-channel content (for many in this group, this is the only concept of surround), then its processing might be good but you get plenty of sound cards for much cheaper than can do the same from a PC for up to 8 channels. If you are looking for specialty processors with Auro3D etc., then you will be paying a huge premium for that feature getting a box most of which you won't be using.

Pick your core requirements and use cases first and then a solution that will satisfy it. The requirements vary a lot from person to person.

It can output 16-24 channels (depending on model) analog with full ATMOS and (hopefully someday soon) DTS-X, and any of the other legacy codecs. As mentioned, it does not even do volume level adjustment per channel, let alone eq, let alone room and speaker correction DSP. And it is expensive at $4k, and the company is tiny and is experiencing major supply chain shortages currently, and they have tons of backorders to fill from kickstarters and presale buyers.....

 

[searcher]

To follow up on this I did end up getting the AES3 Realiser, and it serves its purpose reasonably well. I feed it to SAM Genelec to use with GLM so I don't need an amplifier at all so my setup feels very clean. With regards to DRM content, the Realiser works fine except that it is limited to (and will downsample to) 48Khz 24-bit PCM, which isn't an issue for me.

As for supply chain shortages, I got mine a few months ago and within a couple weeks or less of ordering it, I think the AES3 version is newer and might not be limited in supply the way the others are. And I suppose it's a way for them to generate the cash they need especially given its higher price (especially relative to preorders), whether you agree with that business practice or not.

There are inconveniences though. For now, eARC hasn't been enabled though that should be coming quite soon with a software update. Same with DTS, which is probably further down the line than the eARC update (in practice I get my Oppo to output in LPCM to circumvent this if needed). The software is not bug free, one bug meant that I needed to reflash the device firmware to use it at all. It's also not completely straightforward and I spent a couple hours working out how to set it up (this is without using any of the headphone virtualization features which is what the device is actually meant for). Customer service has been okay... I find myself having to chase them for responses but I get them in the end, I'm probably more patient than most.

Happy to answer any other questions others might have.

 

[Chit]

This sounds like a really good digital out option at a pretty reasonable price point, compared to other options with digital out Storm audio / Trinnov etc. A bit off topic here but do you know of anyway of combining dual mono AES3 outputs into a single AES3 input, with the intention of feeding L/R front into stereo dacs? Have a couple of existing high performing stereo dacs Aqua Formula xHD v2, and other cheaper ones on the AKM4499 chips that I would love to use for Atmos. eyeing a pair of Focal SM9s as well for rear R/L

 

[herculepirate]

I have been in the same boat by going with the Genelec 8260a monitors.
Going digital is awesome until the point when you wanna add other sources i.e. Turntable, HDMI devices like Chromecast, Computer Audio.
The added necessity of measuring well turns a lot of options away.

Why does DENON have no processors. They have measured well here and are clearly a company that is open to criticism and redesign based on @amirm inputs.

 

[abdo123]

I have been in the same boat by going with the Genelec 8260a monitors.
Going digital is awesome until the point when you wanna add other sources i.e. Turntable, HDMI devices like Chromecast, Computer Audio.
The added necessity of measuring well turns a lot of options away.

Why does DENON have no processors. They have measured well here and are clearly a company that is open to criticism and redesign based on @amirm inputs.

You can just buy the AVRs and disable amplification.

would still be tad cheaper than a processor from another brand.

 

[herculepirate]

You can just buy the AVRs and disable amplification.

would still be tad cheaper than a processor from another brand.

@abdo123
Is there an AVR with balanced preamp outputs ?

 

[herculepirate]

I hope there is a review of the Outlaw AV Processor
Outlaw AV 976