SMSL M500 DAC and HP Amp Review

[tseng]

Hello everyone! Been lurking for some time. Big thanks to @amirm and everyone here for this resourceful forum! I have a unit with SW 1.5, HW 1.2. Upgraded the USB firmware from v1.05 to v1.08 without any problem.

I've got one issue that I couldn't figure out after reading up here and googling around: When playing DSD using ASIO, the XMOS control panel shows "PCM mode" but not "DSD mode".

More specifically, I use foobar2000 with foo_out_asio and foo_input_sacd on a Windows 10 Pro machine. I set the foobar output to "DSD : ASIO : USB DAC ASIO" and set the SACD output mode to "DSD". When playing DSD64, the ASIO status in the XMOS control panel shows: "Current Sample Rate: 176400 Hz; ASIO active (PCM mode)", while the M500 display shows: "DSD 2.8224MHz". (Similarly, the XMOS control panel shows 352800 Hz for DSD128 and 705600 Hz for DSD256, i.e., the 16-bit PCM equivalents.)

I looked this up in XMOS's USB Audio Design Guide. It seems it would be in the PCM mode only if DoP (DSD over PCM) is used:
"When enabled, if USB audio design detects a un-interrupted run of these samples (above a defined threshold) it switches to DSD mode, using the lower 16-bits as DSD sample data. When this check for DSD headers fails the design falls back to PCM mode. DoP detection and switching is done completely in the Audio/I2S core (audio.xc). All other code handles the audio samples as PCM."
But with foo_input_sacd set to output DSD, I thought it wouldn't be using DoP at all.

I guess I must be missing something trivial but couldn't figure out what I'm missing.

 

[w1000i]

I tired M500 on iMac with latest software.I used YouTube and Tidal.

There is an issue with Tidal in exclusive mode where the sound volume drop significantly. This way I HATE Linux core when playing music for DACs.
Windows with drivers works perfect.

 

[Veri]

Hello everyone! Been lurking for some time. Big thanks to @amirm and everyone here for this resourceful forum! I have a unit with SW 1.5, HW 1.2. Upgraded the USB firmware from v1.05 to v1.08 without any problem.

I've got one issue that I couldn't figure out after reading up here and googling around: When playing DSD using ASIO, the XMOS control panel shows "PCM mode" but not "DSD mode".

More specifically, I use foobar2000 with foo_out_asio and foo_input_sacd on a Windows 10 Pro machine. I set the foobar output to "DSD : ASIO : USB DAC ASIO" and set the SACD output mode to "DSD". When playing DSD64, the ASIO status in the XMOS control panel shows: "Current Sample Rate: 176400 Hz; ASIO active (PCM mode)", while the M500 display shows: "DSD 2.8224MHz". (Similarly, the XMOS control panel shows 352800 Hz for DSD128 and 705600 Hz for DSD256, i.e., the 16-bit PCM equivalents.)

I looked this up in XMOS's USB Audio Design Guide. It seems it would be in the PCM mode only if DoP (DSD over PCM) is used:
"When enabled, if USB audio design detects a un-interrupted run of these samples (above a defined threshold) it switches to DSD mode, using the lower 16-bits as DSD sample data. When this check for DSD headers fails the design falls back to PCM mode. DoP detection and switching is done completely in the Audio/I2S core (audio.xc). All other code handles the audio samples as PCM."
But with foo_input_sacd set to output DSD, I thought it wouldn't be using DoP at all.

I guess I must be missing something trivial but couldn't figure out what I'm missing.

Try this tutorial https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.co...-part-3-new-experimental-sacd-plugin-v-0-9-x/ but use the exact versions of the tools (except foobar which should be up to date). The version matters. Correct version should be capable of native dsd rather than resorting to DoP.

When I did everything according to that page I had it work flawlessly.

 

[tseng]

Try this tutorial https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.co...-part-3-new-experimental-sacd-plugin-v-0-9-x/ but use the exact versions of the tools (except foobar which should be up to date). The version matters. Correct version should be capable of native dsd rather than resorting to DoP.

When I did everything according to that page I had it work flawlessly.

That resolved the issue. Thank you so much!

I had no idea that "since version 0.9.8, the SACD plugin outputs DSD only in DoP format either through WASAPI or through ASIO" and that DSDTranscoder can be used to address this.

Just for possible future reference, that also seemed to resolve two other issues I had:
1. When trying to play a DSD512 dsf file, foobar2000 gives an error: "Unrecoverable playback error: Sample rate of 1411200 Hz not supported by this device." (It's now obvious, as M500 supports up to 768kHz.)
2. DSD playback (in foobar2000) loses music signal and starts to give faint noise 8 seconds before the end of any DSD track, if the next track on the playlist is not DSD, and if the volume in foobar2000 isn't set to 0. When this happens, the M500 display changes from "DSD" to "Hi-Res Audio" and stays so for these 8 seconds. The Hi-Res Audio sampling frequency shown on the M500 display during these 8 seconds is the equivalent 16-bit PCM frequency corresponding to the DSD being played. For example, for DSD64, the M500 display changes from "DSD 2.8224MHz" to "Hi-Res Audio 176.4kHz" 8 seconds before the end of a track.

 

[Toku]

1. When trying to play a DSD512 dsf file, foobar2000 gives an error: "Unrecoverable playback error: Sample rate of 1411200 Hz not supported by this device." (It's now obvious, as M500 supports up to 768kHz.)

I also struggled with this problem for a long time.
But after updating Windows 10 Pro to 1903, it improved like a lie.
I don't know why.
The current Windows 10 Pro is 1909, but it is operating stably.
The setting of foober2000 was done by the method described in the Topping manual.

 

[half_dog]

Hi guys!

I've just received my M500 that was bought on 11.11. So, I have been following those glitches/problems reports and soon as I got it I made some tests.
Unit info: SW 1.4 HW 1.2/ 2019-07-28
PC: Dell G7 7588 - Windows 10 Home edition
Foobar2000 v1.4.6 (foo_input_sacd 0.9.2)

Firmware 1.05:
1. No problem playing any file up to DSD256 and DXD (352.8kHz / 24bit), that was the highest I could test - Windows volume must be maxxed out for DSD;
2. Atenuated volume when connected to a Android devide (tested with Moto G 7 Plus, Moto X4 and Redmi Note 4x);
3. No 32 bit option;

After firmware update to 1.08 (diplayed on Device Info):
1. No problem at all. Even though when playing anything but DSD, using OUTPUT DSD:ASIO: USB DAC ASIO on Foobar2000 that "clip", it sounds awful - it seems a problem from this component, I have the same problem with KTB.
2. Solved.
3. Solved.

As I mention above, mine unit´s SW is 1.4. Is it possible to update it? Any know about the differences between 1.4 and 1.5? Can´t lie I´m a little upset because I was expecting to take the latest version.

 

[Toku]

As I mention above, mine unit´s SW is 1.4. Is it possible to update it? Any know about the differences between 1.4 and 1.5? Can´t lie I´m a little upset because I was expecting to take the latest version.

It was SW 1.4 HW 1.2 / 2019-07-28 that I ordered and received immediately after the release of M500.
The second M500 I received yesterday was SW 1.5 HW 1.2 / 2019-10-9.
We have been testing the operation continuously since it arrived, and found that there is a big difference between the two versions.
I think that the version of SW 1.4 HW 1.2 / 2019-07-28 that you have received is still many in stock on the market.
Where did you buy from?
I confirmed and purchased Ver from Shenzhen Audio in China.
The first M500 purchased was returned to the later purchased Shenzhen Audio.

 

[half_dog]

It was SW 1.4 HW 1.2 / 2019-07-28 that I ordered and received immediately after the release of M500.
The second M500 I received yesterday was SW 1.5 HW 1.2 / 2019-10-9.
We have been testing the operation continuously since it arrived, and found that there is a big difference between the two versions.
I think that the version of SW 1.4 HW 1.2 / 2019-07-28 that you have received is still many in stock on the market.
Where did you buy from?
I confirmed and purchased Ver from Shenzhen Audio in China.
The first M500 purchased was returned to the later purchased Shenzhen Audio.

I´ve bough mine during Aliexpress 11.11 from BrightAudio Store.
Don´t say it
May I ask you what those differences are? And how big?
Oh, I just have tested and mine unit has the leaking problem from XLR/RCA when playing with high volume in HP output.

 

[Toku]

I´ve bough mine during Aliexpress 11.11 from BrightAudio Store.
Don´t say it
May I ask you what those differences are? And how big?
Oh, I just have tested and mine unit has the leaking problem from XLR/RCA when playing with high volume in HP output.

I switched to HP output now and maximized the volume of HP.
Leakage can be confirmed by increasing the volume on the amplifier side. It cannot be heard at normal volume.
But this sound leak is a problem.
But this sound leak is a problem. It is necessary to change HW to improve this.

 

[TC!!]

Postscript
I've been testing the M500 that arrived continuously, but the problems I've had so far do not occur on the No2 PC. It is very strange.
Is the processing speed of the PC related?

It's not related to your processor speed. I have a 2010 Mac Pro and if I use the standard USB 2 outputs my DAC cannot play 16/44.1 without problems. I bought a USB 3 PCIe card and my DAC can handle 24/96 from that. This is not a USB3 vs USB2 issue as my DAC was designed before USB3 even existed, this just shows how some DACs can be affected by some USB outputs.

One suggestion from other boards is to try a passive USB Hub. Please don't buy one just to try this but if you have a USB hub give it a go.

I'm now using the optical output on a Mac Mini because I wanted a Roon Core without a display. I also have a Raspberry Pi 4 running Ropieee which I'd like to use as a Roon Bridge. Right now both the Raspberry Pi and the Mac Mini cannot be used when connected to my DAC via USB. This is why I'm buying the M500.

I switched to HP output now and maximized the volume of HP.
Leakage can be confirmed by increasing the volume on the amplifier side. It cannot be heard at normal volume.
But this sound leak is a problem.
But this sound leak is a problem. It is necessary to change HW to improve this.

You say leakage can be confirmed by increasing the volume on the amplifier side. The M500 has 2 volume controls, fore HP and for LINE, are you saying the leakage is worse if you've increased the volume on the LINE side? If that's correct then can you reduce the leakage by reducing that volume?

I guess I'm reading you wrong and you mean the leakage is linked to the volume of the HP output.

 

[TC!!]

I´ve bough mine during Aliexpress 11.11 from BrightAudio Store.
Don´t say it
May I ask you what those differences are? And how big?
Oh, I just have tested and mine unit has the leaking problem from XLR/RCA when playing with high volume in HP output.

Here is Toku's post where he compares the 2 versions he bought:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...l-m500-dac-and-hp-amp-review.9606/post-279520

The only difference I can see which may be related to the main software is they have now removed the ability to turn the screen brightness off completely. That's a good thing as people had to use a factory reset to get the screen back ;-)

Some people are seeing better performance at higher bitrates after installing the 1.08 USB Firmware update but that has nothing to do with the main software version of 1.4/1.5. If you can perform the upgrade to USB 1.08 and the DAC sounds good to you then I wouldn't be worried about the SW version.

Even after reading all the issues in this thread I've still bought an M500 even when I had a chance to wait.
If it plays the music you like then please enjoy using it.

 

[Toku]

You say leakage can be confirmed by increasing the volume on the amplifier side. The M500 has 2 volume controls, fore HP and for LINE, are you saying the leakage is worse if you've increased the volume on the LINE side? If that's correct then can you reduce the leakage by reducing that volume?.

How to check leakage to Line OUT when I was in HP mode
Set to HP volume 40, Line Out volume 40
It is the impression of the leak from the speaker when the volume of the amplifier connected to Line out is gradually raised.
I think that it is severe as a condition to leak.

 

[TC!!]

How to check leakage to Line OUT when I was in HP mode
Set to HP volume 40, Line Out volume 40
It is the impression of the leak from the speaker when the volume of the amplifier connected to Line out is gradually raised.
I think that it is severe as a condition to leak.

What happens with these settings?

HP volume 40
Line Out volume 0

 

[Toku]

What happens with these settings?

HP volume 40
Line Out volume 0

I heard it from the speakers at the same volume as when HP volume 40 and Line Out volume 40 were set.
I can't hear at the maximum volume of 20 when I use HP.
Decreasing the HP volume will make it inaudible.
That means that the headphone line leaks to the RCA line output.

 

[TC!!]

I heard it from the speakers at the same volume as when HP volume 40 and Line Out volume 40 were set.
I can't hear at the maximum volume of 20 when I use HP.
Decreasing the HP volume will make it inaudible.
That means that the headphone line leaks to the RCA line output.

Thanks for the update, I don't often use headphones but if I did then I'd hope the leak wouldn't be enough to turn my active speakers on.
I'll have to see what volume level I can go to if my M500 ever arrives.

 

[NorthGraves]

Hey, I was wondering, when I want to start a non-DSD source after I have listened to DSD files, should I actually switch in Foobar2000 from

to

or it makes no difference whatsoever?

The information in the XMOS driver when playing (in this case) a 44.1 KHz / 16 bit flac file is exactly the same in both choices:

 

[NorthGraves]

By the way, finally got to it:
DSD512 - zero noise, zero issues, all excellent.

 

[tseng]

The current Windows 10 Pro is 1909, but it is operating stably.

In my case, I was also using Win10Pro 1909 (OS build 18363.476). I think the reason why I got the 1.4MHz playback error was that I was using the SACD foobar plugin without the DSD Transcoder, so it was sending the DSD512 stream via DoP enclosed in 1.4MHz PCM, while M500 only supports PCM up to 768kHz.

I have the same question as NorthGraves had above: whether using the DSD Transcoder affects native PCM playback in any (negative) way.

 

[TC!!]

Well I finally get to join in with the fun, my M500 arrived this morning.
Mine is SW 1.5 HW 1.2 USB 1.05

First the Facts
I bought this DAC because I wanted to use my Mac Mini as a Roon Core with the best quality output, USB. My previous DAC could not play 16/44.1 from the Mac Mini's USB without popping. So far I've tried 16/44.1, 24/96, 24/192MQA and 128DSD and everything plays perfectly, no pops at all.

I route a lot of devices through my Sony TV so it's optical output needs to work and it's also perfect through the M500.

I was worried the issue with leaking sound when listening to headphones would be a problem. I was able to get my Shure SE425 IEMs up to a volume that I couldn't listen to comfortably, 18, and the leakage wasn't enough to turn on my active speakers, so that's good enough for me.

In terms of functionality and compatibility with my system it's already money well spent.

Now Opinion
This thing sounds amazing. I've connected a device that cost me less than £300 to a pair of active speakers that cost £3600 and it's a big improvement. No A/B testing but to my ears soundstage, vocals and bass are improved. The soundstage sounded a lot better when testing the optical out from my TV with an episode of the Mandalorian.

I've never been able to try DSD before as my previous DAC wasn't compatible. I tried a DSD128 copy of Pink Floyd Wish You Were Here, it's not night and day from my old DAC listening to the CD version but the vocals and imaging really stood out. For 16/44.1 I tried a track I've been playing a lot lately, Freya Ridings - Castles, again vocals and sound stage seem improved, the punch on the drums isn't just a boom any more.

My previous DAC was the Audiolab M-DAC, a £600 DAC that won multiple What Hi-FI awards from its introduction in 2012 where it won product of the year, it then won the award for best DAC between £500-700 from 2012-2014. When I 1st bought it the sound improvement over my Cambridge Audio Dac Magic was enough to make me happy. Since replacing my ageing power amplifiers and speakers with my Elac F-51 active speakers I felt the Audiolab might be letting down the system and now I feel like I'm getting a lot more out of my speakers.
Now I just need to sell it on eBay for close to £300 and the upgrade paid for itself. Anyone looking for an award winning DAC ;-)

Faults
So far the only things I could complain about are tiny. It would be nice if the left/right arrow keys on the remote could move through sources. 90% of what I do is either USB or Optical 1, using the single button to loop through sources isn't the end of the world but left/right would make it perfect.
The display could make better use of its size. When changing volume you see the screen is definitely big enough. Their use of one central area for a huge icon with other information such as volume level and input information being tiny doesn't seem like the best choice. Again, it's minor, the only time I look at the DAC is while changing volume and source.


So overall I'm very, very happy. A few months ago I knew nothing about the Chinese market for DACs and then heard about Topping and found this forum, so glad I did. I think I may have reached end game for my system.

 

[w1000i]

Today I tried M500 with ROON on iMAC and the sound volume dropped with exclusive mode.

Any idea ? I believe this related to the Linux drivers not m500 fault as on window no volume drop in exclusive mode.