SMSL DL200 the best ever value DAC/AMP?

[hifime]

SMSL seems to be designing for ASR measurements. They need to do some basic useability improvements like auto switching source when plugging in headphones, showing volume instead of sampling rate by default, (both should be optional, too, of course), and fixing/minimizing the pops on rate change.

Oh, and ditch MQA, or have an identical "lite" version minus MQA and pass the saving to us.

 

[TheShield]

Are you only using it to stream via bluetooth from your phone?

if so, I would just get a WiiM ptro streamer.. the built-in dac may not be as flawless as the c200's, but at least you can stream via tidal/spotify connect or chromecast and not use bluetooth (yikes)


I'm using mine via optical and have used it gor a few days and maybe a total of 15 hours now..
I've had one issue, where there was a burst of distortion middle of a song.. no idea why..
no pops, no clicks, nothing..

it just works.

But I am exclusively using optical input! USB Is the devil!


I hate the volume knob and the fact that plugging in headphones doesn't switch to headphones..
and I hate not having buttons to switch gain, input, output, and other things that come up often..

but it works

I use the C-200 to stream music on my backup phone. I don't stream from apps like Spotify. Im tempted to get a USB-C to optical adaptor and just use it wired to the C-200. If it eliminates the audio from stopping then I will live with the cord. I only listen to it in bed anyways so not a big deal. Im wondering if this would even work, USB-C from phone to optical on the C-200 and then headphone out with the 6.3mm jack.

So you're using an optical connection on yours? To PC speakers or headphones?

 

[hifime]

I use the C-200 to stream music on my backup phone. I don't stream from apps like Spotify. Im tempted to get a USB-C to optical adaptor and just use it wired to the C-200. If it eliminates the audio from stopping then I will live with the cord. I only listen to it in bed anyways so not a big deal. Im wondering if this would even work, USB-C from phone to optical on the C-200 and then headphone out with the 6.3mm jack.

So you're using an optical connection on yours? To PC speakers or headphones?

Have you tried just using USB-C/lightning to USB-C OTG cable to connect your phone to the C200?

 

[TheShield]

Have you tried just using USB-C/lightning to USB-C OTG cable to connect your phone to the C200?

Oh I never even knew the C-200 has a USB-C input jack. I don't have a USB-C OTG cable, will have to order one. But I do recall when first getting the C-200 that the audio would randomly stop as well when playing music off my main phone. Not sure if it happened as often though since I only used my main phone for a day before switching to my backup phone.

I have lots of USB-C to USB-C cables but none are OTG. Can't I just use a USB-C to USB-C cable?

 

[MbphotoX]

I use the C-200 to stream music on my backup phone. I don't stream from apps like Spotify. Im tempted to get a USB-C to optical adaptor and just use it wired to the C-200. If it eliminates the audio from stopping then I will live with the cord. I only listen to it in bed anyways so not a big deal. Im wondering if this would even work, USB-C from phone to optical on the C-200 and then headphone out with the 6.3mm jack.

So you're using an optical connection on yours? To PC speakers or headphones?

I use optical from my computer (which has an optical output) into the DL200
from there, I feed balanced TRS into my active studio monitors (the balanced connection for speakers was my key requirement for the dac)

I also use my headphones off of it, but haven't yet decided if I want to keep my Destiny audio tube amp and keep using that instead.. (haven't compared the two amps yet)

you're going to an awful lot of trouble just to listen to headphones in bed.
Why don't you just use a phone dongle with enough power to drive your headphones?!

 

[TheShield]

I use optical from my computer (which has an optical output) into the DL200
from there, I feed balanced TRS into my active studio monitors (the balanced connection for speakers was my key requirement for the dac)

I also use my headphones off of it, but haven't yet decided if I want to keep my Destiny audio tube amp and keep using that instead.. (haven't compared the two amps yet)

you're going to an awful lot of trouble just to listen to headphones in bed.
Why don't you just use a phone dongle with enough power to drive your headphones?!

I have a couple Apple USB-C dongle DACS that i use for my computers and they're great for that, but I find it could use more volume when it comes to headphone listening. Often I will be maxed out on some songs at 100% and still wish it had more juice. So the volume is the main reason, otherwise I would just stick with it.

Im reading on the Topping L70 right now. Seems this model has no issues.

 

[MbphotoX]

I have a couple Apple USB-C dongle DACS that i use for my computers and they're great for that, but I find it could use more volume when it comes to headphone listening. Often I will be maxed out on some songs at 100% and still wish it had more juice. So the volume is the main reason, otherwise I would just stick with it.

Im reading on the Topping L70 right now. Seems this model has no issues.

believe me... there's no device from Topping, SMSL, or any other "chi-fi" manufacturer that truly has "No issues"...
They are all cheap ass devices that get thrown together and sold for low prices with no regards to quality control, longevity, etc.

FiiO, from what I can tell, has the lowest rate of issues and appears to be the most reliable product-wise.

That said:
Do you use the Apple Dongle on an apple device?
If it's Android, you might want to use a different music player that lets you unlock the maximum volume.. (I'm not sure if the EU Apple dongle on Apple devices has the same issue and could be unlocked.. given how incredibly many there are out there, you'd imagine more measurements would've been conducted..)
Anyways, the Apple Dongle on Android phones is software limited and needs an app to be "unlocked" for higher volume.

But I didn't mean an Apple Dongle..
I meant something along the lines of a FiiO KA11: https://fiio.eu/product/fiio-ka11-dac-and-headphone-aplifier-black
or the higher end ones, like the KA5..

Still relatively small, with a lot more power than an Apple Dongle..
They should serve you a lot better than having to try and drive a desktop DAC from your phone..
(the image is ridiculous, sorry.. holding a phone with a USB wire going to your desktop, to have a headphone wire coming back to your head.. )

 

[TheShield]

believe me... there's no device from Topping, SMSL, or any other "chi-fi" manufacturer that truly has "No issues"...
They are all cheap ass devices that get thrown together and sold for low prices with no regards to quality control, longevity, etc.

Yeah from all my time researching, I seem to be coming to this conclusion as well unfortunately.

FiiO, from what I can tell, has the lowest rate of issues and appears to be the most reliable product-wise.

I think FiiO is the most reliable out of them all. They are quality and I've had their DACs before (many many years ago)

That said:
Do you use the Apple Dongle on an apple device?
If it's Android, you might want to use a different music player that lets you unlock the maximum volume.. (I'm not sure if the EU Apple dongle on Apple devices has the same issue and could be unlocked.. given how incredibly many there are out there, you'd imagine more measurements would've been conducted..)
Anyways, the Apple Dongle on Android phones is software limited and needs an app to be "unlocked" for higher volume.

Well I have my volume limiter disabled in the developer options. I will look into apps that could unlock higher volumes.

But I didn't mean an Apple Dongle..
I meant something along the lines of a FiiO KA11: https://fiio.eu/product/fiio-ka11-dac-and-headphone-aplifier-black
or the higher end ones, like the KA5..

Still relatively small, with a lot more power than an Apple Dongle..
They should serve you a lot better than having to try and drive a desktop DAC from your phone..
(the image is ridiculous, sorry.. holding a phone with a USB wire going to your desktop, to have a headphone wire coming back to your head.. )

Funny enough, I am considering the KA17. Seems to be one of the newest models from FiiO and has better sound than BTR7 and KA11.

I would think I'm not alone in trying to drive a desktop DAC with my phone no? A big reason why I got a desktop DAC is because of the volume knob. Much prefer this over buttons and I would rather have a larger device (since it just sits here) than a smaller device that just heats up more. Small chasis + heat is not good for the long term.
Plus having a remote is a big bonus. And I much prefer to adjust the volume on the DAC itself as opposed to the phone.

 

[MbphotoX]

Yeah from all my time researching, I seem to be coming to this conclusion as well unfortunately.



I think FiiO is the most reliable out of them all. They are quality and I've had their DACs before (many many years ago)



Well I have my volume limiter disabled in the developer options. I will look into apps that could unlock higher volumes.



Funny enough, I am considering the KA17. Seems to be one of the newest models from FiiO and has better sound than BTR7 and KA11.

I would think I'm not alone in trying to drive a desktop DAC with my phone no? A big reason why I got a desktop DAC is because of the volume knob. Much prefer this over buttons and I would rather have a larger device (since it just sits here) than a smaller device that just heats up more. Small chasis + heat is not good for the long term.
Plus having a remote is a big bonus. And I much prefer to adjust the volume on the DAC itself as opposed to the phone.

I cannot imagine the KA17 to sound any better than the KA11.. those are both transparent DACs and high impedance headphones shouldn't be affected much by the differing output impedance of those "amps"..

looks like what you're looking for is definitely NOT a DL200, so it's probably better to move this somewhere else, though.


From what I've gathered here, if I was you, I would simply get a FiiO R7

Fiio R7 Android Streamer Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the FIIO R7 DAC, media player, headphone amp and streamer based on Android operating system. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $700. As you see, you have the equivalent of a normal Android phone screen. It is impressive in size compared...

www.audiosciencereview.com

It's ridiculously good, has a display with touch, a remote.. a big and nice volume knob..
You wouldn't even need your phone anymore and could just stream straight from your bed with remote in hand.

Could also get a FiiO M11 for 200-300 bucks (barely used on ebay) and ditch the phone, too..
portable DAP with Android interface, streaming integrated, strong amp, great DAC, etc. I honestly don't see the appeal of having a big device next to my bed..
(Okay, I have a B&W Zeppelin on my drawer with a WiiM Streamer connected to it.. but that's different.. It's a stereo for the bedroom with the phone as the remote)

 

[TheShield]

I cannot imagine the KA17 to sound any better than the KA11.. those are both transparent DACs and high impedance headphones shouldn't be affected much by the differing output impedance of those "amps"..

looks like what you're looking for is definitely NOT a DL200, so it's probably better to move this somewhere else, though.


From what I've gathered here, if I was you, I would simply get a FiiO R7

Fiio R7 Android Streamer Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the FIIO R7 DAC, media player, headphone amp and streamer based on Android operating system. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $700. As you see, you have the equivalent of a normal Android phone screen. It is impressive in size compared...

www.audiosciencereview.com

It's ridiculously good, has a display with touch, a remote.. a big and nice volume knob..
You wouldn't even need your phone anymore and could just stream straight from your bed with remote in hand.

Could also get a FiiO M11 for 200-300 bucks (barely used on ebay) and ditch the phone, too..
portable DAP with Android interface, streaming integrated, strong amp, great DAC, etc. I honestly don't see the appeal of having a big device next to my bed..
(Okay, I have a B&W Zeppelin on my drawer with a WiiM Streamer connected to it.. but that's different.. It's a stereo for the bedroom with the phone as the remote)

Thanks for the suggestions. Those extra items would be nice but I have a backup phone that I use as a multi-purpose device for a lot of things, so using this for music playback in bed is not a big deal. But if I was rich they're not for sure by that r7. Haha

That's a pricey device for what I paid for the c200 DAC. Got it on sale for $225 CAD.

 

[Dexter_prog]

I've just gotten the dac/amp.

No clicks/pops here using Roon (ASIO) over USB-C, not even when switching tracks of different bitrates.

Since it's my first headphone amp, I was curious at what levels and with which headphones you are using it. I got a pair of Meze Liric and feel anything about 10-12 in the DL200 is too loud

 

[TheShield]

Does any of you get the 3 horizontal lines on the screen when you power on your unit? Not sure why it does this but this prevents it from auto connecting to your device through bluetooth and then I have the constantly power on and off the C200 until I don't get the lines, then it will auto connect to my phone. otherwise, if you get the lines then it doesn't even connect manually. So stupid.

 

[MbphotoX]

Does any of you get the 3 horizontal lines on the screen when you power on your unit? Not sure why it does this but this prevents it from auto connecting to your device through bluetooth and then I have the constantly power on and off the C200 until I don't get the lines, then it will auto connect to my phone. otherwise, if you get the lines then it doesn't even connect manually. So stupid.

Maybe the C200 is different?
I would go to the SMSL C200 review thread and ask there, because this here is still about the newer DL200.

But looking at the C200, I feel like I should've gotten that one, instead.. the KNOB looks so much nicer than on the DL200.
Sure, the DL200 has the newer DAC chip and more power on headphone output, but I wouldn't need that anyways.
And the Design of the C200 would've matched my tube amp better, too..

ah, well..

I've just gotten the dac/amp.

No clicks/pops here using Roon (ASIO) over USB-C, not even when switching tracks of different bitrates.

Since it's my first headphone amp, I was curious at what levels and with which headphones you are using it. I got a pair of Meze Liric and feel anything about 10-12 in the DL200 is too loud

Are you using the headphone amp at low gain?
Might be worth it, to get a little more room to play.
With my DT1990 Pro (250 Ohms, 96dB/mW 102dB/mW sensitivity) at high gain, I'm often at 20-25 on the volume.
If I switch to Low Gain, I can get a lot "higher"..

EDIT: edited. Thanks for pointing out the difference in sensitivity. Will see how my DT990 Edition with 250 Ohm fare, too. The Grado RS2e will probably be at single digit volume, lol

 

[JIW]

I've just gotten the dac/amp.

No clicks/pops here using Roon (ASIO) over USB-C, not even when switching tracks of different bitrates.

Since it's my first headphone amp, I was curious at what levels and with which headphones you are using it. I got a pair of Meze Liric and feel anything about 10-12 in the DL200 is too loud

Volume 10 on the DL200 is -56.5 dB while 12 is -53.5 dB. The Meze Liric 2nd generation produces 100 dB at 1 mW and has an impedance of 61 Ohms which is equivalent to a sensitivity of 100 - 10*log10(61/1000) = 112.1467 dB at 1 V. Amir measured a what was probably a first generation Liric at .204 V for 94 dB which is equivalent to 107.8 dB at 1 V RMS.

In low gain, the full output of the DL200 is 2.5 V RMS. High gain is 11 dB higher. Thus, in low gain at 12 volume, the peak levels are at most 69.6 dB SPL while they are 3 dB lower at 10 volume. In high gain this is all 11 dB higher so at most 80.6 dB at 12 volume.

This is all quite low.

 

[staticV3]

Volume 10 on the DL200 is -56.5 dB while 12 is -53.5 dB. The Meze Liric 2nd generation produces 100 dB at 1 mW and has an impedance of 61 Ohms which is equivalent to a sensitivity of 100 - 10*log10(61/1000) = 112.1467 dB at 1 V. Amir measured a what was probably a first generation Liric at .204 V for 94 dB which is equivalent to 107.8 dB at 1 V RMS.

In low gain, the full output of the DL200 is 2.5 V RMS. High gain is 11 dB higher. Thus, in low gain at 12 volume, the peak levels are at most 69.6 dB SPL while they are 3 dB lower at 10 volume. In high gain this is all 11 dB higher so at most 80.6 dB at 12 volume.

This is all quite low.

User @nick_l44.1 showed that the DL200 in High gain can output about 5.8Vrms into 64Ω at 1% THD+N:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...he-best-ever-value-dac-amp.46694/post-1855364

So with the Liric II, Peak SPL could reach 112.146+20*log10(5.8)=127.4dB, if the headphone can even keep up.

Edit: of course, with volume set to just 10-20, SPL will be much, much lower.

 

[DeDovla]

With my DT1990 Pro (250 Ohms, 96dB/mW sensitivity) at high gain, I'm often at 20-25 on the volume.
If I switch to Low Gain, I can get a lot "higher"..

DT 1990 Pro is 250 Ohms and 102dB/mW sensitivity, not 96dB/mW (that is usually the rating for 250Ohm drivers found in 770/880/990).
And yes, I can confirm that C200 can drive them in low gain with no sweat, no real reason to even consider high gain except maybe some recordings that are really silent even when you go really high up in low gain.
For example, some games have dynamic range settings which can require a lot more volume so if you're running out of volume in low gain, high gain can be useful there.

Since C200 low gain output is 2V, it can drive the DT 1990 to 114dB SPL. I personally use somewhere between 50 and 65 on the volume knob in low gain.
The DL200 has 2.5V in low gain so it can drive them to 116dB.

 

[Adaboy4z]

I'V been listening for a week now and it sound good. Amplifier is a Yamaha M-35, speakers Mission AE, headphones HE400se and it has plenty of power to drive them.
The Dac does have a soft pop when turning on.

 

[wfujay]

I just bought one of these. Will it power Sennheiser HD660s2's?

 

[Adaboy4z]

I just bought one of these. Will it power Sennheiser HD660s2's?

Try them out and see! It's rated at 1.5w at 32 ohm and 200mw at 300 ohm.

 

[staticV3]

I just bought one of these. Will it power Sennheiser HD660s2's?

Easily.