Smsl a300 upgrade to drive kef r3

[Kross]

Hi all, I've got kef r3 speakers with svs sb-2000 temporary driven by SMSL a300 + topping e30 ii + wiim mini.

The combo sounds good but I'm thinking about end game integrated amp with sub output. The room I have is a small 10x10ft home office and I mostly stream spotify/tidal for music.

Is there any option within $1500 that will provide a noticeable sound quality upgrade from smsl a300?

I also have a limited space to put the amp. I'd try Yamaha a-s701 or a-s801 but the amp is just too deep and doesn't feet the shelf that's 12 inch deep.

I'm in the US.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Hi all, I've got kef r3 speakers with svs sb-2000 temporary driven by SMSL a300 + topping e30 ii + wiim mini.

The combo sounds good but I'm thinking about end game integrated amp with sub output. The room I have is a small 10x10ft home office and I mostly stream spotify/tidal for music.

Is there any option within $1500 that will provide a noticeable sound quality upgrade from smsl a300?

I also have a limited space to put the amp. I'd try Yamaha a-s701 or a-s801 but the amp is just too deep and doesn't feet the shelf that's 12 inch deep.

I'm in the US.

No. Upgrading electronics rarely makes a difference especially not in your case as you already have a SOTA dac/amp.

Unless you are not using it already anyway, I would run RoomEQ on the Wiim and get a UMIK1 (ca 80USD) to measure the room and even out the room effects. Much much more impact for very little money.

 

[Kross]

No. Upgrading electronics rarely makes a difference especially not in your case as you already have a SOTA dac/amp.

Unless you are not using it already anyway, I would run RoomEQ on the Wiim and get a UMIK1 (ca 80USD) to measure the room and even out the room effects. Much much more impact for very little money.

I'm new to the audio world but the statement "Upgrading electronics rarely makes a difference" is confusing to me. Why would people then buy expensive amps if there is no audio quality difference comparing to $200 Chinese amps?

One of the options I was looking at is nad c700 (size that fits my environment, all in one streaming, amp, sub management). Are you saying I won't even notice a difference comparing to smsl?

Also, hearing wows about amps like Rega for kef r3 made me think there is day and night difference. Out of my budget though

 

[HarmonicTHD]

I'm new to the audio world but the statement "Upgrading electronics rarely makes a difference" is confusing to me. Why would people then buy expensive amps if there is no audio quality difference comparing to $200 Chinese amps?

Because they are fooled by the marketing of companies wanting their money.

As a rule of thumb: speakers and the room influence sound by orders of magnitude more than any modern electronics. So if you want to get the most bang for your buck, invest there (not in dac/amp).

Look at the many threads and scientific explanation here, why this is so (it has been debunked many times over). Once you understood the science it will save you a ton of money.

Start by eg browsing the Reference Library section, look up the reviews of your gear here and have a peak into the Psychoacoustic section. Learn about the effects of a room on sound quality (room modes) and how to improve it.

You got a good system. Resist the upgraditis and the snake oil sales people telling you differently. Or what do you think about your system?

 

[Kross]

Because they are fooled by the marketing of companies wanting their money.

As a rule of thumb: speakers and the room influence sound by orders of magnitude more than any modern electronics. So if you want to get the most bang for your buck, invest there (not in dac/amp).

Look at the many threads and scientific explanation here, why this is so (it has been debunked many times over). Once you understood the science it will save you a ton of money.

Start by eg browsing the Reference Library section, look up the reviews of your gear here and have a peak into the Psychoacoustic section. Learn about the effects of a room on sound quality (room modes) and how to improve it.

You got a good system. Resist the upgraditis and the snake oil sales people telling you differently. Or what do you think about your system?

Thanks for taking time and patiently responding to what's been asked many times in this forum (just did some browsing), appreciate it.

I just wasn't sure if smsl a300 is pretty much at the level when stepping up in price won't benefit significantly.

As acoustic treatment my room isn't an option, would minidsp flex with mic and Dirac license then be a better investment?

Honestly, the only concern I have with my setup is that in some recordings (especially jazz and especially old recordings) vocals do not feel to be pronounced and sound a little backed up and muted comparing to instruments (if it makes sense). I thought a different amp may help due to better "quality". But it sounds like a room correction would do a better trick, correct?

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Thanks for taking time and patiently responding to what's been asked many times in this forum (just did some browsing), appreciate it.

I just wasn't sure if smsl a300 is pretty much at the level when stepping up in price won't benefit significantly.

As acoustic treatment my room isn't an option, would minidsp flex with mic and Dirac license then be a better investment?

Honestly, the only concern I have with my setup is that in some recordings (especially jazz and especially old recordings) vocals do not feel to be pronounced and sound a little backed up and muted comparing to instruments (if it makes sense). I thought a different amp may help due to better "quality". But it sounds like a room correction would do a better trick, correct?

Yes MiniDSP and Dirac would be much better investment.

However you most likely can achieve the same with your Wiim as I am sure it has a parametric EQ (PEQ) integrated via its OS. I am not familiar with the Wiim but it works with a RPi (Moode with Camilla DSP). There is a big Wiim thread here where you certainly can get help.

To determine the parameters to enter into the PEQ you just need a UMIK1 mic (80 USD) and REW software (free). It measures the frequency response in your room and calculates the filter parameters for the PEQ, Look for well made YouTube tutorials on how to use REW.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

… one more thing. REW (plus the UMIK1) will also help you to quantify exactly the reason for the muffled sound you perceive and also helps you to optimize your speaker position which is for free and might already improve what you describe.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Upgrading electronics rarely makes a difference especially not in your case as you already have a SOTA dac/amp.

What? S.M.S.L A300 is nowhere near a SOTA amp... I'm pretty sure it's the weak link in his system, especially if he's seeking for high SPLs.

Concerning REW EQ, sure, it will make a hell of a difference.

I just wasn't sure if smsl a300 is pretty much at the level when stepping up in price won't benefit significantly

In your case, it will would.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

What? S.M.S.L A300 is nowhere near a SOTA amp... I'm pretty sure it's the weak link in his system, especially if he's seeking for high SPLs.

Concerning, REW EQ, sure, it will make a hell of a difference.


In your case, it will.

Do you think it would make an audible difference to change the amp?

I very much doubt it. Especially not to the extent of fixing the muffled sound he describes.

Let’s not recommend him to spent 1k before all the cheaper and more effective options are explored. Then yes he can look into better amps. Or is there a problem I am not seeing except for maybe the weak power? (THD and SNR looks good (enough)), yes ok maybe not SOTA).

Thread 'New SMSL A300 BTL Class-d Power Amp'
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-smsl-a300-btl-class-d-power-amp.34607/

 

[delta76]

I'm new to the audio world but the statement "Upgrading electronics rarely makes a difference" is confusing to me. Why would people then buy expensive amps if there is no audio quality difference comparing to $200 Chinese amps?

One of the options I was looking at is nad c700 (size that fits my environment, all in one streaming, amp, sub management). Are you saying I won't even notice a difference comparing to smsl?

Also, hearing wows about amps like Rega for kef r3 made me think there is day and night difference. Out of my budget though

You pay more for things like "Made in US/Japan", build quality, or service or support. While Chinese amps can provide very clean power, they also cut corners in technical (build quality) and non technical (service, support, ethics) aspect to maintain a low price which is their main selling point.

but of course that is only up to a point. Audio industry is full of snake oils, and the markup is extremely lucrative. So an amp which you buy for $10.000, is probably produced for $2000 (if not less), and the other $8000 goes to the distributors, retailers, influencers, reviewers etc. And because of those insane markup, those people who get kickbacks will give you bizarre, non sense statements like "basses go deeper, wider soundstage, unmatched clarity" etc.

As advised by @HarmonicTHD - treat your room and apply room correction. You already have a great pair of speakers, no need for a "better" amp or dac

 

[VintageFlanker]

Do you think it would make an audible difference to change the amp?

When seeking high volumes with complex speakers, I'm sure it would. Yet...

Especially not to the extent of fixing the muffled sound he describes.

Alright, not in that case. Also, I noticed that the listening room is too small to take benefits of more power anyway (especially with the support of an SB-2000). DACs are a done deal, not amps in my book. But yeah, in this specific case, A300 will do the trick.

Let’s not recommend him to spent 1k before all the cheaper and more effective options are explored. Then yes he can look into better amps.

Agreed. I recommend a MiniDSP Flex then.

 

[Kross]

Started cheap as recommended , ordered UMIK-1 for a $100 shipped.
Let's get some objective data first and then decide on next steps.

 

[Kross]

When seeking high volumes with complex speakers, I'm sure it would. Yet...

Alright, not in that case. Also, I noticed that the listening room is too small to take benefits of more power anyway (especially with the support of an SB-2000). DACs are a done deal, not amps in my book. But yeah, in this specific case, A300 will do the trick.

Agreed. I recommend a MiniDSP Flex then.

I'm almost never listen at high volumes. Mostly low to mid.

 

[restorer-john]

What? S.M.S.L A300 is nowhere near a SOTA amp... I'm pretty sure it's the weak link in his system, especially if he's seeking for high SPLs.

Exactly. It's not even in the same league as a Yamaha A-701 letalone an 801..

 

[JSmith]

Yeah the SMSL A300 doesn't exactly pack much in the way of power...

... more like 48W@8R at best before starting to approach clipping territory.

The KEF R3's can take more power if needed, up to 180W.


JSmith

 

[delta76]

Yeah the SMSL A300 doesn't exactly pack much in the way of power...

View attachment 281534

... more like 48W@8R at best before starting to approach clipping territory.

View attachment 281536

The KEF R3's can take more power if needed, up to 180W.


JSmith

as OT mentioned he always listen at low to mid. so I would say 10w is already a generous estimate.
sure better amp does not hurt, but it is not a first priority

 

[maty]

KEF R3: about 86 dB and... 3.2 Ohms minimum

You need a better amp if you listen to good/very good recordings (and not only modern commercial, very bad produced and usually with low/very low DR).

 

[Kross]

KEF R3: about 86 dB and... 3.2 Ohms minimum

You need a better amp if you listen to good/very good recordings (and not only modern commercial, very bad produced and usually with low/very low DR).

Any specific recommendations withing $1500 and small form factor? Can you also define "good"? Is spotify streaming good?

 

[TonyJZX]

why is there a surprise when a $200 amp doesnt come close (allegedly) to a $1,000 amp?

further one might ask is the $1k going to be 5x as good?

 

[Beave]

A 10'x10' room is pretty small. And if you aren't listening loud, you don't need much power at all. So while your current amp is somewhat limited in its capabilities, it's probably fine for this situation.