Well, if you want to wait over a year by accounts!
(People in Europe can send headphones to Oratory, and I think he said he sometimes receives them Internationally too).
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Skullcandy Grind Wireless Headphone Review
- Thread starter amirm
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(People in Europe can send headphones to Oratory, and I think he said he sometimes receives them Internationally too).
So you'd probably say on-ears are less consistent than open backed over ears, but maybe more consistent than closed back over ears, to generalise?
I am not aware of an evaluation of closed back on-ears vs closed back over-ears in terms of consistency across users to be honest. I'm generally tempted to presume, in the absence of a feedback mechanism, that both tend to suck in that regard, until proven otherwise (with actual measurements on a cohort of individuals), while I'd presume that the opposite is true for open over-ears, but I'd also expect some individual models to refute these presumptions
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I know, it's a bit too much to ask really, to try to collate the results of various studies to try to guage a pattern, especially when the different studies might have different methodologies that might prevent accurate comparisons, I just wondered if you'd seen a general trend. And oh right, these are closed back on ears, I didn't even think to make the distinction when I saw they were on ears, but I guess they can be closed back or open back too. At least we know open back headphones are generally more consistent, I think it's gonna be my continued favourite type of headphone: open back over ears. I'm kinda bowled over by how consistent the K701 (K702 by definition too I suppose) was in terms of on head measurements - that (K702) was my first ever audiophile headphone purchase way back in 2015, that's definitely gonna be one of their positive attributes then, and then if you're able to get round the unit to unit variation issue (luckily I was able to) then theoretically you should be experiencing a pretty accurate Harman EQ (the way it's meant to sound).I am not aware of an evaluation of closed back on-ears vs closed back over-ears in terms of consistency across users to be honest. I'm generally tempted to presume, in the absence of a feedback mechanism, that both tend to suck in that regard, until proven otherwise (with actual measurements on a cohort of individuals), while I'd presume that the opposite is true for open over-ears, but I'd also expect some individual models to refute these presumptions
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NO disrespect intended, but I like to see more inexpensive brands tested, just my two cents
Bam!
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Yes. ER4SR came just to mind because he has/had it and was once a great fan. And oc I know the graphs and how they differ from certain targets. Fiio JD7 and ER2SR are more or less same price range as are many more. And I know: Send it in. Well in some cases you have to be willing to wait a damn long time. I ain't.
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The only headphones that I ever used (they were the only ones that I liked when trying them that met my requirements: over the ear, comfortable to me for hours [not that I am ever in them more than 45 minutes, max], open back {so I can hear what's going on in my house come to dinner call, phone ring, etc}, sound not terrible & be wireless are the SENNHEISER TR180.
I bought them when they first came out and have used them ever since. Great for when I vacuum/dust the house, go to dump the house trash to the outside can, doing yard work, don't want to disturb my wife (or a guest) that is sleeping or just listen outside while I am doing hobby things
They are not Blue Tooth, they are (From the manual: MSK Digital: 2.4-2.48 GHz; the RS 180 utilizes KLEER's lossless digital wireless audio transmission, offering a range of up to 320 feet of audiophile-grade sound and reception to four optional pairs of Sennheiser KLEER headphones).
For me, they are perfect for around the house & yard.
I've never felt the need to use anything else for the purposes I use it for.
I listen to speakers 90+% of the time.
OP
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I can do that but then you can't see the full list at one time. Most monitors have more horizontal resolution than vertical.
To be fair to amir, I bought these as backups so didn't need them right away and told him so when I sent them. Then I didn't think about them until my son busted his head phones a couple weeks ago.
@ out of 3 ain't bad: as long as the sound is OK. And, for me, it is.
Unfortunately, I have no idea how they measure.
I can only say that I bet it's better than many wired ones from then & not as good as some wired ones today.
However, my use case is not critical listening (actually, it is rare that that is my use case with my speakers), but listening to great sound while I read, build a model,
design something or what have you.
I am not a person who can sit still (for more than about 10 minutes) without doing something. This has caused me a bit of trouble throughout my life, but it is what it is.
Yes, they are easy to find and it's an interesting case because as you say it's very popular but it don't have anywhere near the amount of bass that Harman target calls for. It is still praised by most.
Just a guess but maybe It'd be a small hit on this site credibility? It's a tough dilemma for a technical reviewer. How can you trash something you love to listen to and is your go to daily IEM? Or how can you not trash something that measure "wrong" when you have consistently call out manufacturers for this reason? Tough call. I have Grado Gr10e, I'd like also to see measurements, I don't find any, but by ear I know they will have a similar curve as the Ethymotics. No I am not ready to part from them for a year. It shows that Harman is not everything.
Like in the past where Amir's choice in electronics for his main listening room were very pricy Mark Levinson equipment. The DAC measured objectively poor (altough for fairness it's a 1999 design). We never saw measurments of the amps. Still, hard to go after the brands that are not competitive in measurments when what you listen to daily and enjoy isn't and it sounds great to you. Not sure if he still uses that.
Bam!
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Exactly. Would be interesting if this is still true for Amir, because target is... well you know.
CES 2017: Etymotic Research (in-ear monitors)
Etymotic is one of my favorite companies having produced one of the first in-ear-monitors that had high transparency. I had my first unit for some 15 years until I replaced it with their newest one, the ER4SR Had a great talk with them. They said they are bringing lower cost versions to...
audiosciencereview.com
Not in blind tests.
Nope.
It shows that the human ear + eyes + brain + cognitive biases are collectively a poor judge of sound.
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Right, but both has flat bass, not Harman Bass. Not everybody like that bass boost in blind tests, just a majority, and Haman studies don't blind test headphones, they blind test EQ curves. It would be biased because, well they don't feel the same so it's not blind. Amir's evaluations are not based on blind tests anyway, they are based on Measurments and Sighted listening tests.
Cognitive biases caused by eyes and brain may be a poor judge of sound, but nothing can be more biased than disliking something because a study tells you you should not like!
Personally I don't get why sighted is necessarily biased. I have IEMS that are much more close to Harman target than my Grados, ATH-TWX9. Why would it be biased to prefer one over the other? What I do know is that I find with the bassy ones that I constantly reach out to the volume wheel. That's not an obscure bias that makes me do that. It's because the extra bass makes me lower the volume, then I don't hear details so I bring it up, then I get listening fatigue so I bring it down. That's not subjective, that's reel data. I really change the volume all the time where with the Grado I don't touch it. Blind tests can't show that.
edit. I was refering to the 4s, see below.
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solderdude
Grand Contributor
Aside from taste/preference add to that insertion depth and seal differences IRL.
Measurements on the same fixture when, done properly, at least will be repeatable.
The Grado and ER4PT will still sound substantially different though despite 20Hz to 600Hz differing only 2dB on that specific fixture, regardless of the target and fixture compliance to a certain norm.
To get back on on-ear headphones... Proper seal is difficult with these types of on ear.
Measurements on the same fixture when, done properly, at least will be repeatable.
The Grado and ER4PT will still sound substantially different though despite 20Hz to 600Hz differing only 2dB on that specific fixture, regardless of the target and fixture compliance to a certain norm.
To get back on on-ear headphones... Proper seal is difficult with these types of on ear.
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I admit that my assesment of ER-4 is just from memory without direct comparison and all you say is trough about seal, insertion and so on. When referenced at 1k they don't look as different tough in term of general signature, considering the bass will vary much based on seal but also on volume, and that measurments above 5 k are generally not so accurate, and that Etimotycs tips are radically different so will introduce transfer function differences depending on ear canal (unlike comparing two earphones with the same tips on the same canal). That said they are indeed different but maybe not as much as Gary's Graph suggest. the general trend is relatively speaking in the same world of sonic signatures.
Edit, oh, not the same earphones, but I was talking about the 4s.
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