Significant improvement or...?

[iazriel]

Hi all. So I am relatively new to the audiophile game. I am a PC gamer that till now used to believe that good gaming headsets from SteelSeries or Razer are also good headphones. You can laugh freely.

I am mainly gaming (80%) on my PC, RPG, action-RPG immersive games, (Witcher, Skyrim, Darksiders) nothing competitive and 20% music (Tidal HiFi), movies.

I currently own a HiFiman Sundara and I am waiting for my DT 770 pro 250 Ohm. Along with my Beyer cans I am waiting for a JDS Atom amp which will be connected to my pc via 3.5mm (green port on the back of the motherboard) to RCA. My motherboard is an Asus ROG Strix Z390 H Gaming, which houses a Realtek S1220A chip along with some SupremeFX enhancements like shielding, better materials used etc. In any case, it is one if not the best a motherboard has to offer.

I am thinking of taking an external DAC like the Topping D30 which is considered the best afaik for its money. The 1 million $ question is this: Am I going to see a significant difference over my onboard one worthy of spending 120€ to get this dac?

Thank you in advance for your answers and guidance!

 

[Blumlein 88]

That Realtek chips claims some nice specs like 120 db SNR output and 113 db input. The question is whether it meets that or not.
If this RMAA test was done properly then it looks better than average, but far short of specs.
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/asus-prime-x570-pro/9.html

Now I don't know that you'd see a large improvement going to an external DAC over that. I would think you would benefit to feed the outputs of this to the JDS Atom amp. So certainly prior to buying the external DAC, I'd try the Atom with the chip you have. If it has no obvious problems, that is likely all you really need. If you find it sometimes lacking, then you can spring for the DAC later.

 

[iazriel]

Thank you for your answer. As I mentioned since I am new to the audiophile world, half people talk rubbish about the onboard chips even though the decent ones, some say that onboard vs external dac (over usb) is day and night difference and some, like your answer, are more neutral based on facts that I still don't fully understand tbh. I have my Sundara on the onboard at the moment and apart from the fact that they don't get loud enough they sound pretty OK to me soundwise (remember my previous cans were Razer and mid range SteelSeries). The amp will solve the loudness issue and I was wondering if going to an external DAC will present to me a whole new different world of audio clarity that some claim.

 

[THW]

Thank you for your answer. As I mentioned since I am new to the audiophile world, half people talk rubbish about the onboard chips even though the decent ones, some say that onboard vs external dac (over usb) is day and night difference and some, like your answer, are more neutral based on facts that I still don't fully understand tbh. I have my Sundara on the onboard at the moment and apart from the fact that they don't get loud enough they sound pretty OK to me soundwise (remember my previous cans were Razer and mid range SteelSeries). The amp will solve the loudness issue and I was wondering if going to an external DAC will present to me a whole new different world of audio clarity that some claim.

based on what we know, very unlikely a new DAC will transport you to aural nirvana.

i think many people don’t appreciate just how much they tend to overestimate their hearing abilities.

 

[iazriel]

So I guess, we've reached to a point , like with the Atom where cheap amps get really good, high end onboard DACs are decent enough for most our needs, even with headphones like the Sundara and the DT 770?

 

[edechamps]

I would be fine with using an onboard DAC to drive an amp (assuming noise/ground loops are kept under control), but I wouldn't use an onboard DAC to directly drive headphones. They often have poor output impedance, low power capability, and low output voltage, any of which can result in audible issues.

 

[iazriel]

I would be fine with using an onboard DAC to drive an amp (assuming noise/ground loops are kept under control), but I wouldn't use an onboard DAC to directly drive headphones. They often have poor output impedance, low power capability, and low output voltage, any of which can result in audible issues.

Like the issues I am having with the Sundara right now. Hopefully, Atom will make things right with both the Sundara and the DT 770 without the need for an external DAC.

 

[maxxevv]

It really, really depends on how broken your onboard audio card is. Some cards can be that bad.

If you want to make an educated decision, try your headphone at some local audio shop with your Atom. See if it makes a significant enough difference for you. If it doesn't, then no point pushing money where you don't need to spend.

 

[dksouth7th]

Discovered this site just trying to gain a little knowledge to buy a dac/amp to power a pair of HD58x for mostly gaming and a little music. Ended up getting the "ASR special" and am very happy with both.

That being said the extra power of the Atom was the only noticeable difference from the on board audio. (Gigabyte x370 Gaming k7)

 

[iazriel]

Discovered this site just trying to gain a little knowledge to buy a dac/amp to power a pair of HD58x for mostly gaming and a little music. Ended up getting the "ASR special" and am very happy with both.

That being said the extra power of the Atom was the only noticeable difference from the on board audio. (Gigabyte x370 Gaming k7)

Same Realtek chipset, thanks for your answer! I guess for our gaming needs, the DAC will be more than sufficient. If our needs change in the future, a DAC will be added.

Something else. I read somewhere that what matters most is the actual headphones, then the amp and last the DAC. I don't know how true is that tbh but it's a question I have as a noob audiophile.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Same Realtek chipset, thanks for your answer! I guess for our gaming needs, the DAC will be more than sufficient. If our needs change in the future, a DAC will be added.

Something else. I read somewhere that what matters most is the actual headphones, then the amp and last the DAC. I don't know how true is that tbh but it's a question I have as a noob audiophile.

Headphones 1st. Then dac and amp are relatively the same. It's not that they are less important but the change of them being less than ideal is less. And amp can often be short of power, having hum or noise etc so you may argue it's more important.

 

[iazriel]

What's the ASR special btw?

 

[dksouth7th]

Same Realtek chipset, thanks for your answer! I guess for our gaming needs, the DAC will be more than sufficient. If our needs change in the future, a DAC will be added.

Something else. I read somewhere that what matters most is the actual headphones, then the amp and last the DAC. I don't know how true is that tbh but it's a question I have as a noob audiophile.

What's the ASR special btw?

Khadas Tone Board Dac and Atom amp.

And by far the biggest improvement I had was going from Steel Series Arctis 5 to HD58x.

 

[iazriel]

Ah I see thanks.

Went from Razer Nari and Siberia to Sundara and Audeze Mobius (changing them now for the DT 770). Mind blowing experience...

 

[thomasjast]

A lot of fans of the DT 770 around here. Some part of me wonders if I should have kept them... (had the 250 and 80 ohm versions).

 

[iazriel]

I have tried the Sundara and Mobius over the past 2 weeks. Sundara were clear winners. But my wife has strong negative feelings about open backs and the Mobius are extremely uncomfortable so... I will tell you my impressions when the 770 arrive!

 

[Willem]

Archimago has tested some older laptop soundcards and they confirmed my own experiences: not good. Onboard audio on my desktop computers has been much better, particularly with my wife's more recent one. On my own old desktop I use an ODAC usb dac to good effect (into a 2x100 watt Quad 405-2 power amp and Harbeth P3ESR speakers).

 

[iazriel]

Generally I observed a shift in the reviews for onboard cards from the previous Realtek 1150 generation onwards. For older generations, things were, to put it mildly, not so good. Hopefully, the 1220 will do its job adequately.

 

[JJB70]

To be brief, headphone amplifier possibly yes, DAC probably no. And my advice would be not to go mad, the JDS Atom is a splendid headphone amp with all the power you need which is well past the point of diminishing returns (it shames products costing an awful lot more) and is not expensive. I must admit I wish I had a pound for every time somebody has told me they bought a separate headphone amp/DAC based on magazine recommendations expecting a night and day difference and found that it sounded just the same.

 

[RayDunzl]

My motherboard is an Asus ROG Strix Z390 H Gaming, which houses a Realtek S1220A chip along with some SupremeFX enhancements like shielding, better materials used etc. In any case, it is one if not the best a motherboard has to offer.

I have a newer MSI board

• Realtek® ALC1220 Codec
• 7.1-Channel High Definition Audio
• Audio Boost 4: Reward your ears with studio grade sound quality for a true HI-FI experience (amplification, I suppose, since the output is significantly higher than my previous motherboard)

With Sennheiser HD650, I think it compares well to my DAC's headphone out.

Clear sound, no noticeable noise, adequate volume.

(I don't use phones that much. Have some old active desktop speakers and a good "stereo" on the other side of the room)