Motherboard integrated audio card VS Audio DAC

[Mbison]

Not having received full satisfaction on this subject and even on this kind of forum dedicated to the passion for audio, I propose this debate to you again. What is the difference between an audio card integrated into a PC motherboard and an audio DAC, USB, for example. So why this question?

Well, I currently have a motherboard, MSI MPG X570 Gaming), equipped with an audio card integrated with the Realtek ALC 1220-VB driver. At the time (2020), it was the most high-end from Realtek. The main characteristics are (from the "igorslab" site):
-(SNR) 120 dB
-(DSD) decoder
-capacitor-free connector, which eliminates the need for an external coupling capacitor and ensures less distortion and fewer pop effects.
-high output voltage of up to 2.1 Vrms and can drive high impedance headphones (up to 600 Ω)

The headphones I use are the DT 1990 from Beyerdynamics (250Ω), and I can see the difference between the port managed by the ALC 1220-VB and the other, coming from the PC case. Indeed, the ALC port is more powerful and does not generate parasitic noise.

And then, a friend allowed me to try his IBASSO DC04 PRO, a quality audio DAC (USB-C). Well, I didn't notice any difference with the ALC 1220-VB. Am I deaf??

So I ask myself questions. We are all, as audio enthusiasts, looking for the best fidelity available to us, but not to the point of consuming it unnecessarily! So, I would like one of you to enlighten me on this subject in order to better understand what is happening here.

Why should I invest in a DAC rather than sticking with my ALC 1220-VB? Let's not do too much with these DAC stories (apart from the fact that they are of course mobile devices) or did I go wrong somewhere?

 

[Chrispy]

I would start you off with the search results of this in general on dacs https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dac+differences+site:audiosciencereview.com&t=newext&atb=v311-1&ia=web

As to a computer environment for the dac, might depend on the computer's behavior as a whole....

 

[Doodski]

What is the difference between an audio card integrated into a PC motherboard and an audio DAC, USB, for example.

The difference is with a external amp you can have more power output driving your headphones. The difference in DACs will be mostly inaudible because they have good enough specs to not be detectable by the human ear. As a example I went from a ASUS motherboard with the ALC4080 with Savitech SV3H712 amplifier to a JDS Labs ATOM DAC+ and a Schitt Heresy headphone amp. The difference is very noticeable but that is attributed to the high power output of the headphone amp. The audio is dead silent. No hiss and stuff when listening to audio. When no audio is playing the unit is in mute mode and is dead silent.

-high output voltage of up to 2.1 Vrms and can drive high impedance headphones (up to 600 Ω)

~600 Ohms is not the difficult to drive zone it is when the impedance dips down to ~15 Ohms or lower that it becomes a very difficult load.

 

[markanini]

One of the big the issues is that the output impedance is not zero. But it's kind of a moot point when ridiculously well performing dongles exist for 10 bucks.

 

[Killingbeans]

Am I deaf??

Nope. Just not biased. Or possibly biased in a "negative" way. Or you're not hung up on small details, that have little to no effect on the enjoyment of audio.

Either way, it's a good thing. Enjoy what you got, and be glad you dodged a spiral of compulsive obsession

Why should I invest in a DAC rather than sticking with my ALC 1220-VB?

The only reason I can think of, is if you have plans of buying other headphones in the future that are really hard to drive.

I had problems with a ground loop that gave me audible coil whine. An external DAC connected with toslink killed it completely.

Doesn't sound like you have problems with ground loops though.

 

[Mbison]

Nope. Just not biased. Or possibly biased in a "negative" way. Or you're not hung up on small details, that have little to no effect on the enjoyment of audio.

Either way, it's a good thing. Enjoy what you got, and be glad you dodged a spiral of compulsive obsession



The only reason I can think of, is if you have plans of buying other headphones in the future that are really hard to drive.

I had problems with a ground loop that gave me audible coil whine. An external DAC connected with toslink killed it completely.

Doesn't sound like you have problems with ground loops though.

Thanks for your response. Haha, however, I make the effort to pay attention to the details! The ideal would have been to try several types of amps to see the difference, but if it's just a matter of power and extraneous noise, then my ALC 1220 is obviously doing well? I saw on a forum about an evaluation test on the audio quality of an amp by experimenting to put the volume to the maximum without sound and, if we heard parasitic noises, it is that it was "not good". Well I tried the experiment with this ALC and we hear absolutely nothing...
I would like to point out that the 600ohm output is at the back of the box, near the GPU, but it is the other jack port (the one on the box, far from the other components) which is noisy.

 

[Mbison]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply to me! The thing is, I want to be able to get the most out of my DT 1990 pro. This is a 250 ohm headphone, which is not so easy to drive. When I plug it into a smartphone, it's a calvert, or into a standard PC jack output, noise and no power. Whereas with the port driven by the ALC 1220-VB, these problems disappear. So what's the point of buying an audio DAC, such as the one I told you about earlier for my PC? Maybe with a higher end amp I could see a difference? From what amp range do you think there would possibly be a noticeable difference?

I would also like to turn to a Hifiman Arya for the sound stage (because the DT 1990 sound stage is disappointing). I would like to know if the amp has an influence on the sound stage?

 

[Doodski]

I saw on a forum about an evaluation test on the audio quality of an amp by experimenting to put the volume to the maximum without sound and, if we heard parasitic noises, it is that it was "not good". Well I tried the experiment with this ALC and we hear absolutely nothing...

When there is no signal/audio the output is muted with transistors that kill any form of output so this test is not valid. One needs a source that disables the mute circuitry to run this sort of test.

 

[Mbison]

When there is no signal/audio the output is muted with transistors that kill any form of output so this test is not valid. One needs a source that disables the mute circuitry to run this sort of test.Schiit Magni 3+

Oh ok! You mean an audio source in which there would be no sound?

 

[Doodski]

Oh ok! You mean an audio source in which there would be no sound?

Yes, exactly the type of source. You should/might be able to hear tiny tiny little beeps, blips and staticy noise if the source is engaged with no music heard. It's veryy difficult to kill all those beeps and blips that come from motherboards. Mine requires the volume(s) to be at max and really listen for stuff and I can just barely sometimes hear stuff. At my normal listening levels which are pretty loud I hear no beeps and blips from the motherboard USB running into the JDS Labs ATOM DAC+ and the Schiit headphone amp. Good motherboards have improved a lot and the state of beeps and blips is pretty good.

 

[dualazmak]

Yes, exactly the type of source. You should/might be able to hear tiny tiny little beeps, blips and staticy noise if the source is engaged with no music heard. It's veryy difficult to kill all those beeps and blips that come from motherboards. Mine requires the volume(s) to be at max and really listen for stuff and I can just barely sometimes hear stuff. At my normal listening levels which are pretty loud I hear no beeps and blips from the motherboard USB running into the JDS Labs ATOM DAC+ and the Schiit headphone amp. Good motherboards have improved a lot and the state of beeps and blips is pretty good.

I essentially agree with your points.

We should be very careful, however, to perform this kind of tests with almost maximum volume/gain of our amplifiers; we need to carefully avoid any incidental intrusion(s) of sound or pop throughout the tests, otherwise...

I assume we maybe better to use only the specific ASIO routing, and totally disable all of the other sound play devices/software including Windows (or MAC's) OS-based sound output routings.

 

[Mbison]

Yes, exactly the type of source. You should/might be able to hear tiny tiny little beeps, blips and staticy noise if the source is engaged with no music heard. It's veryy difficult to kill all those beeps and blips that come from motherboards. Mine requires the volume(s) to be at max and really listen for stuff and I can just barely sometimes hear stuff. At my normal listening levels which are pretty loud I hear no beeps and blips from the motherboard USB running into the JDS Labs ATOM DAC+ and the Schiit headphone amp. Good motherboards have improved a lot and the state of beeps and blips is pretty good.

Ok, thanks I'll try that And I'll keep you informed afterwards.

 

[Mbison]

I essentially agree with your points.

We should be very careful, however, to perform this kind of tests with almost maximum volume/gain of our amplifiers; we need to carefully avoid any incidental intrusion(s) of sound or pop throughout the tests, otherwise...

I assume we maybe better to use only the specific ASIO routing, and totally disable all of the other sound play devices/softwares including Windows (or MAC's) OS-based sound output routings.

Yes indeed, it can be quite dangerous!
That said, your other method seems complex. Looks like it, for someone (like me) who has no idea what ASIO routing is

 

[dualazmak]

Yes indeed, it can be quite dangerous!
That said, your other method seems complex. Looks like it, for someone (like me) who has no idea what ASIO routing is

My post here would be of your reference regarding "sticking to all-in-ASIO routing", I assume.

 

[majingotan]

(because the DT 1990 sound stage is disappointing).

Seriously disagree with this. It's pretty wide and 3D sounding (wrap around aural sensation) when I had demoed it.

 

[IXOYE]

I was pleasantly surprised by the headphone output on my Apple IMac 24, the sound quality was really really good.

 

[mmmdc]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply to me! The thing is, I want to be able to get the most out of my DT 1990 pro. This is a 250 ohm headphone, which is not so easy to drive. When I plug it into a smartphone, it's a calvert, or into a standard PC jack output, noise and no power. Whereas with the port driven by the ALC 1220-VB, these problems disappear. So what's the point of buying an audio DAC, such as the one I told you about earlier for my PC? Maybe with a higher end amp I could see a difference? From what amp range do you think there would possibly be a noticeable difference?

I would also like to turn to a Hifiman Arya for the sound stage (because the DT 1990 sound stage is disappointing). I would like to know if the amp has an influence on the sound stage?

The DT 1990 is a very efficient headphone at 102db/mW. I've used it from my cheap phone's headphone jack just fine.

If anything, I'd suspect differences in output impedance to matters the most, and like a lot of dynamic driver headphones, high impedance translates to more bass for these.

https://diyaudioheaven.files.wordpress.com/2021/09/dt1990-120-ohm.png

DT 1990 Pro

back to Beyerdynamic back to measurements home published: Jul-16-2017, updated: Oct-03-2021 NO SMOOTHING is applied to the shown plots. Most measurement sites have some smoothing applied which ‘iro…

diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com

Source "quality" generally matters very little. The difference between a top tier source and a mediocre one is tiny, as long as there are no obvious issues like clipping.

Maybe the front panel port (which is almost certainly also driven by the ALC 1220 by the way) is just really bad, or you just prefer the bass boost from higher impedance output.

 

[Killingbeans]

I would like to point out that the 600ohm output is at the back of the box, near the GPU, but it is the other jack port (the one on the box, far from the other components) which is noisy.

The front panel outputs are always connected to the motherboard via long cables that are prone to picking up interference.

My fiancée had the same problem with her gaming rig, and I fixed it by rerouting the cable as far away from the internal components as possible, and using the steel enclosure as shielding as much as possible. A little thing that made a huge difference.

 

[Mbison]

My post here would be of your reference regarding "sticking to all-in-ASIO routing", I assume.

Oh great, thank you for your link! I will try that too

 

[Mbison]

Seriously disagree with this. It's pretty wide and 3D sounding (wrap around aural sensation) when I had demoed it.

Having previously had a Sennheiser HD 25 ii, I did not notice any notable differences with the DT 1990 pro in terms of sound scene, whatever the audio source. Indeed, whether it comes from a movie, a video game or stereo music, this 1990 DT, which cost me 500$, was no better than my Sennheiser at 140$. I even did some tests with binaural audio. The DT 1990 reveals a fairly small soundstage, always located inside the head and not beyond. So it's quite disappointing, I think. That said, it has very good imaging.