Sigberg Audio SBS.1 Active speakers development thread

[Sigberg Audio]

As a manufacturer I just wanted to alert you to think about it, as a recommendation from you carries more weight.

Of course it might just be I'm over sensitive because I also once had a turntable stand that was similar, and almost knocked the whole thing over more than once. I don't know what Roksan were thinking.

Tall stands will by default be top heavy and inherently somewhat unstable. Not sure I see how a stand like the one recommended (with relatively wide feet) is significantly more unstable than a "normal" stand like for instance the one below. If you bump into that it will fall over just the same as a tripod would, if not even easier.

An advantage with the SBS.1 is that you can place it close to the wall, not way out on the floor, so the risk of bumping into it isn't that high to begin with.

 

[Soniclife]

Was the consumption of alcohol a contributory factor?
Keith

No, I don't operate expensive machinery beyond a certain point, well not very often. The real danger is when you are fumbling around the back with cables on something next to them, or drop something down the back of them.

 

[ryanosaur]

I've never been a fan of Tripod Stands, unless the base is unreasonably spread out / wide, much as you would see with Photography gear or an Easel...
Certainly they are easier to level... but a Narrow tripod can be tipped easily, too.

Same as with any stand, or even a Tower, if appropriate force is applied in the correct manner.

Good Stands for Stand Mount Speakers should be able to have weight added to them in a way that can allow one to lower the center of gravity.

Is anything perfect? Absolutely not.

But certain common sense steps can be taken to help ameliorate the greatest concern. Among them is filling the stand with Kiln Dried Sand or perhaps better still lead pellets or shot.
The general rule I've seen is to do so to about 2/3 the height of the tube being filled to aid in bringing the center of gravity down.

Placing any Speaker in a traffic area (like near a doorway) is almost certainly an invitation to possibly bumping it. Tower, Standpoint, doesn't matter. Care of ownership is always the most important consideration.

FWIW, I have Standpoints near a door. Yes, its a concern... But I've also done as I advise, which is to fill the stands and lower the center of gravity, level them so there is less inherent movement if bumped... and place a forcefield around them to deflect incoming unwitting humans!

Just my 2¢.

 

[bogart]

Tall stands will by default be top heavy and inherently somewhat unstable. Not sure I see how a stand like the one recommended (with relatively wide feet) is significantly more unstable than a "normal" stand like for instance the one below. If you bump into that it will fall over just the same as a tripod would, if not even easier.

An advantage with the SBS.1 is that you can place it close to the wall, not way out on the floor, so the risk of bumping into it isn't that high to begin with.


View attachment 342152

@sigbergaudio If I wanted to wall-mount the SBS.1, would I need a wall-mounted shelf stand, or are there other ways of handling that well? I'm thinking specifically of preserving the design's slight tilt, as well as whether it provides enough space to use the DSP profiles provided. Thanks!

 

[Sigberg Audio]

@sigbergaudio If I wanted to wall-mount the SBS.1, would I need a wall-mounted shelf stand, or are there other ways of handling that well? I'm thinking specifically of preserving the design's slight tilt, as well as whether it provides enough space to use the DSP profiles provided. Thanks!

I think a wall mounted shelf stand would be the way to go. There are no mounting points on the loudspeaker itself. As long as the speaker is level (as it will be for instance on a shelf), the tilt will be preserved. And some space will be needed behind the speaker to be able to fit cables, so when you can fit those, you can also reach the button for the DSP as it is off to one side. You could perhaps find some cables with angled connectors, but I'd recommend keeping at least 5cm between speaker and wall to ensure the amp gets enough air.

The speaker itself is also more shallow (23cm) than most bookshelf speakers of similar size, so it should be possible to find a shelf that works. There are some wall mounts that are almost invisible when the speaker is on it.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

Got some REW measurements from a customer with SBS.1 + two Inkognito 10s. This is the natural extension of the subs in his room, no additional lift, and only two EQ points below 100hz to even out the bass a bit.

I don't think you'll see a lot of floorstanders measure like this in-room, and he's got the pretty small SBS.1s, and two subs hidden away (one behind a floor plant to the right, and behind a sofa to the left).

 

[Emlin]

Got some REW measurements from a customer with SBS.1 + two Inkognito 10s. This is the natural extension of the subs in his room, no additional lift, and only two EQ points below 100hz to even out the bass a bit.

I don't think you'll see a lot of floorstanders measure like this in-room, and he's got the pretty small SBS.1s, and two subs hidden away (one behind a floor plant to the right, and behind a sofa to the left).

View attachment 346473

Floor plants are obviously the way to go!

 

[Sigberg Audio]

Just saw the review of the Kef R11 Meta, looked familiar.

Total early reflections (mentioned by Amir as being especially smooth), R11 Meta vs SBS.1:

Listening window and DI pretty similar too:

I suspect I would like the R11 Meta.

 

[killdozzer]

Jays iyagi has a great set of ears, which is very important to stay in the review business. If he mentioned they are good, they should be good.

You gotta be kidding me...

 

[killdozzer]

In that case you may need to measure your own ears first to see if you are hearing and apply the corrections that you are also hearing it the way it is supposed to be.

And in that case you need to do the same cause it's no different just because you praise them and not criticize them, right?

 

[Sigberg Audio]

A quick illustration to make it easier to visualize the size of the SBS.1.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

The Kristiania University of Applied Sciences here in Oslo, Norway recently chose a Sigberg Audio SBS.1 system with dual Inkognito subwoofers when they needed new monitors.

We sat down with head of the program for Sound Engineering & Music Production Claus Sohn Andersen to understand their selection process, and why they ended up with Sigberg Audio. I think it is an interesting story, as they didn't just read the manufacturer claims, they actually borrowed four different systems (Sigberg Audio + three other well known and respected brands), and did an extensive listening test with a listening panel before concluding.

Sigberg Audio monitors at Kristiania University

Kristiania University of Applied Sciences selected Sigberg Audio when they needed new monitors for one of their main studios. We sit down with Claus Sohn Andersen (Head of Bachelor for Sound engineering & Music production) to learn how they ended up with Sigberg Audio, and what they think of...

www.sigbergaudio.com

 

[nc535]

Kudos! No doubt at least some and likely most of that competition didn't use a coaxial driver. Has a coax driver unique advantages for mastering? Does the absence of sound power dips or peaks at crossover and the absence of vertical lobing a better tradeoff than the residual un-smoothness of a coax's treble after equalization? No doubt there are two schools of thought on this and its highly dependent on execution.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

Kudos! No doubt at least some and likely most of that competition didn't use a coaxial driver. Has a coax driver unique advantages for mastering? Does the absence of sound power dips or peaks at crossover and the absence of vertical lobing a better tradeoff than the residual un-smoothness of a coax's treble after equalization? No doubt there are two schools of thought on this and its highly dependent on execution.

Thank you. Only one of the other speakers had a coaxial driver. So there were two coaxial and two non-coaxial monitors being evalutated.

While I of course prefer and think a coaxial design is superior, I think it is possible to create highly competent speakers both with a coaxial and with a traditional tweeter / midrange configuration.

One advantage with the SBS.1 system that they really appreciated, was the combination of even off-axis dispersion and dual subwoofers. This meant both the overall tonality as well as the bass was relatively even compared to the competition. Both outside of the immediate sweetspot (when moving around the mixing console), and everywhere in the room (for when multiple people where in the room). This is of course beneficial in a home/consumer situation as well, as you often move around while listening to music.

The second was the combination of wide/deep soundstage and imaging precision.

I think both of the above is at least in part a component of well executed coaxial designs.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

Some more pictures of the final setup at the Kristiania University. The SBS.1 are placed wide to ensure a huge soundstage and full view into the studio. The dual 12" Inkognito subwoofers are hidden behind the desk for invisible, full range sound.

 

[Vacceo]

I have a question about the tweeter. Controled dispersion is archieved by "sinking" it a bit in the mid (as any coaxial). I have seen that KEF (the calle it "tangerine waveguide) and others add a cover on the tweeter to prevent beaming even more. Would an extra waveguide help controling directivity or is it not worth it due to the DSP?

 

[Sigberg Audio]

I have a question about the tweeter. Controled dispersion is archieved by "sinking" it a bit in the mid (as any coaxial). I have seen that KEF (the calle it "tangerine waveguide) and others add a cover on the tweeter to prevent beaming even more. Would an extra waveguide help controling directivity or is it not worth it due to the DSP?

This coax is pretty controlled as it is, so I'm not sure that is needed?

 

[Vacceo]

This coax is pretty controlled as it is, so I'm not sure that is needed?

View attachment 447662

I´m not arguing about the necessity, but more on the hypothetical advantage of using it. As is, the speaker clearly is consisent at all reproduced frequencies around 40 degrees. Narrow? Sure, but that is great for point source.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

I´m not arguing about the necessity, but more on the hypothetical advantage of using it. As is, the speaker clearly is consisent at all reproduced frequencies around 40 degrees. Narrow? Sure, but that is great for point source.

I will happily confess that designing coaxial drivers is not my area of expertise, so I don't think I can comment on that. Perhaps @Snickers-is has some insight.

 

[Snickers-is]

It is hard to say exactly how the KEF driver would work without the tangerine phase plug. At the same time it is hard to say exactly how the Sigberg coax would work with a phase plug. However, we know that the KEF domes are kind of flat. We also know the midrange driver and the wave guide is kind of shallow, and we know it is crossed over quite low. All of those parameters are different in the Sigberg coax. We also know that most soft domes do not perform well with compression due to the soft nature of soft domes.

The main thing we really care about when designing a coaxial driver is if the drivers integrate well with each other. For example, the tweeter needs to fit well in the waveguide, with or without a phase plug. This means the transfer between the dome and the cone needs to have the right shape, and match with the wave front shape emitted by the dome. We also need the midrange inner diameter to be small enough to be able to go high enough to mate with the dome. When a driver measures really well, we can conclude that it does match well.

But the KEF has gone about a few things very differently. Firstly, they use a metal cone midrange with a large coil diameter. This is a situation that normally would generate some significant break up modes, while at the same time loosing overall output at higher frequencies. They have tried to fix the break up part with a lossy coupling between the coil and the cone. It kind of works as a damping on the cone, and at the same time a mechanical low pass filter between the coil and the diaphragm. This means the tweeter has to be crossed over slightly lower in frequency. A phase plug could potentially give a bit more output in the low end as the excursion increases, while at the same time reduce excursion slightly.

I have not read up on why KEF uses this phase plug, but I can see that the coverage of the dome is a bit less towards the center, and a bit more towards the edges. They do also have a center piece. This should mean you get a small delay at the front, and near the edges, so a kind of slight tendency for a ring shape of the wave front. Experience tells me that this should mean a slight widening of the dispersion towards the edges, and at the same time some extra focusing towards the front of the dome. As the dome is kind of flat, and energized from the edge, I can see the point of that first bit. That last bit could be to compensate back a bit to not loose too much energy straight in front of the speaker at high frequencies.

I can imagine the marketing department also loving this piece, as it is visible and looks very high tech.