Sigberg Audio Saranna (fullrange, cardioid active floorstander) development thread

[sigbergaudio]

Indeed, I looked at the BD02 mentioned earlier in this thread - that explains it

The dual 8" gives a real life performance from each speaker landing relatively close to our Inkognito 12" sub, possibly even more powerful in the very bottom end since it's ported.

Does it play louder than required by any normal person in a normal living room?

Definitely.

Does it play louder than almost any other similarly equipped speaker (with regards to driver size) out there?

Definitely.

No need to ask for further customizations of the drivers from that perspective. The coax will have some visual modifications compared to stock.

 

[jaakkopetteri]

Curious that Wavecor spec the BD02 and BD03 to similar Xmax.

The BD03 seems to have a bit of asymmetry - dual opposed would make sense in that regard, but probably a negligible benefit.

 

[sigbergaudio]

We have reached the stage where I start inviting people over to listen, so that I get some independent feedback and "calibration" of my own experiences. Three people have shared their experiences publicly so far. Disclaimer: These are their subjective opinions and experience. These are also people that I know, and who are customers of Sigberg Audio already. So make of it what you will.

Two of these experiences were shared on a Norwegian forum where a similar thread to this one exists, the last one in a closed Sigberg Audio Enthusiast group on Facebook. I used ChatGPT to translate them + edited it a bit where the translations were weird + shortened the second that was very long. I am including a link to the original post on the two first for transparency.

Note that these are still prototypes, and will change both in appearance and probably to some extent in sound signature.

Feedback from person #1 (He refers to his own setup which is B&W 801D4+++ calibrated with Trinnov and Inkognito subwoofers):
A speaker that obviously doesn't need help from subwoofers. Very impressed with what the "young" promising Sigberg has achieved here.

In practice, it's a Manta with a built-in sub. Very open in the top, good punch in the low frequencies and mid-bass, and the midrange also seemed very well tuned. The sound was very close to my preferences. Naturally, it's a bit difficult to compare with my own setup; if I set the Trinnov here at home in bypass, the Saranna probably sounds better. It would be exciting to test these with the Trinnov Optimizer to "remove" the room. (original post)

Feedback from person #2 (Another B&W owner, 800D3 also calibrated with Trinnov. He also has a second setup with SBS.1 + dual Inkognito):
Will there be internal competition within the portfolio? Or more accurately, who needs a sub? Because there is no lack of PUNCH here, to say the least. The bass lines hit both your hearing and your body with a really potent slam (sometimes a bit too much). It's impossible not to be impressed by the capacity. I cranked up a few tracks with some juicy synth bass tricks. These are also laid out at different frequencies throughout the song, and they hit perfectly. (Voodoo - by OZBEK/Rodez as an example).

After an hour of playing, Thorbjørn suggests closing the bass port to see what I think then.The enormous slam that set the entire construction in motion at festival level is toned down a bit. Now it plays a little closer to the setting I use at home, without saying it was wrong as it was, some people search for the purest bass transients that can be found. You get that here!

There's no problem hearing where Saranna comes from. The similarity in the presentation of sound is almost identical to its siblings. A very panoramic soundstage that stretches far beyond the "sisters'" physical placement on the floor, and the familiar depth/3D experience that is so easy to get used to. But there are differences...I possibly perceive this duo as more playful in their playing style.

The ability to reproduce the smallest details and the way it is presented with the new coax driver is quite different from what I've heard before... in a good way. At normal levels, the sound behaves silkily smooth, clear, open, and forward, and to my surprise, quite similar to how I experience it at home, or how I remember the demo in Horten with the Estelon setup worth millions.

Something very special happens when the dial is turned to the right.The silky smooth and playful playing style is still there, but now it seems to shift gears and goes into a mode similar to what you can expect capable horn rigs to perform. Dynamics and capacity are intact regardless of volume, the performance and reproduction are so convincing that at one point I thought "What the hell do I need some big 800s from B&W for, when this is AT LEAST as good" - And that's before the Trinnov is even connected.

Thanks for the demonstration, and congratulations on what will become yet another fantastic product in the portfolio. Folks! It's something to look forward to! (original post)

Feedback from person #3 (This is a customer who currently has SBS.1 and 10D subwoofer):
Five seconds into the listening session, I had to blink, shake my head, and sit up straight, because what I was hearing gave me an experience I've never had before. Sigberg met me with his usual somewhat reserved expression as if everything was normal. My brain couldn't accept that the sound I was hearing came from speakers. My brain told me that a concentrated open point was created right in front of me in the room, from which a vocal was flowing with such clarity and separation from everything else in the room that it had to be fiction. This combined with a soundstage that was open and airy. This extreme experience came with the song "Kristoffer Robin" by Randi Oline, and at the same time set a standard for the rest of the session.

Larger B&W setups with Hegel, Krell, and other amplifiers I have experienced before have not matched this exact experience, even though the cable cost alone probably makes up a large part of the entire Saranna system. Geoff Castellucci's voice, which is said to go lower than some keyboards, gave immense listening pleasure in the song Sixteen Tons. With Saranna, you listened with both your ears and your skeleton. We tested the dynamics with, among other things, big band music. Here the system shone and showed explosive muscles combined with agility and great ability to separate the instruments. Wonderful!

After a journey through various tracks, we ended with Infected Mushroom. With that, any doubts about the capacity of these active powerhouses were eliminated. As long as you listen without ear protection in a normal living room, the pain threshold will politely ask you to lower the volume before the capacity is fully unleashed. Naturally without audible distortion or noise, in typical Sigberg style. Many thanks to Thorbjørn at Sigberg Audio for the opportunity. (original post not available as it was posted in a closed group)

 

[sigbergaudio]

While our development threads are a way of sharing what's going on, it's a dialogue, and sometimes we get great feedback that shapes how the end product becomes.

Feedback on the product itself is useful, but why not the marketing as well? I'm toying with the idea of going a bit off script with the pre-launch product marketing of Saranna.

There's two elements in the message below that I'm curious about how resonates with you guys. The first one is a focus on a specifc genre like rock, and the second is the implied message that we are straying slightly from the path of accuracy in favor of fun and enjoyment.

 

[sigbergaudio]

I'm leaning towards not directly supporting subwoofers with the Saranna (so not having a preset with a high pass filter), and rather utilizing all three presets for bass configuration.

That would give 6 different bass tunings (3 presets that can be combined with sealing the port or not). Not sure how well this graphs presents the various options (also subject to change).

The default would be preset 1 with port open, so the orange line at ~7dB lift.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Some initial distortion measurements - this from the initial Klippel visit where the focus wasn't THD, so I didn't calibrate the sound level. Note that this is at 2 meter. So it's around 88dB@2m / 94dB@1m.

So I don't expect this to change significantly at 96db@1m. Basically below 1% across the board, below 0.5% most of the time.

 

[sigbergaudio]

This is perhaps closer to how this is usually shared from the NFS measurements. Again at 2m, so level is more like 94-95dB@1m.

 

[dagfinn]

While our development threads are a way of sharing what's going on, it's a dialogue, and sometimes we get great feedback that shapes how the end product becomes.

Feedback on the product itself is useful, but why not the marketing as well? I'm toying with the idea of going a bit off script with the pre-launch product marketing of Saranna.

There's two elements in the message below that I'm curious about how resonates with you guys. The first one is a focus on a specifc genre like rock, and the second is the implied message that we are straying slightly from the path of accuracy in favor of fun and enjoyment.

View attachment 379564

View attachment 379568

I could have been the guy in the pic thirty years ago, and have a daughter of my own - so I understand the passion and emotion you feel, but - I think I'd respond more to a more technical ad as buyer of expensive speakers. I'd like to know more about the science and engineering behind, the cardiod system, the coaxials and point source, why and what it can deliver... "Ventet U-shaped open baffle" doesn't immediately make me understand the design. Is it cardioid, btw? And an image of the baby? Images of the proud family? I think you have some interesting speakers, so good luck .

 

[sigbergaudio]

I could have been the guy in the pic thirty years ago, and have a daughter of my own - so I understand the passion and emotion you feel, but - I think I'd respond more to a more technical ad as buyer of expensive speakers. I'd like to know more about the science and engineering behind, the cardiod system, the coaxials and point source, why and what it can deliver... "Ventet U-shaped open baffle" doesn't immediately make me understand the design. Is it cardioid, btw? And an image of the baby? Images of the proud family? I think you have some interesting speakers, so good luck .

Thanks, there will of course be technical information as well, this isn't the product page in its entirety.

I agree that phrases like "U-shaped open baffle" should probably be accompanied by a technical drawing or something to explain what it is, so we'll definitely do that!


Whether you'd respond more to a technical ad is an interesting question. If we are to believe the marketing experts, people do respond more to the emotional aspects. And while you might think you are a very logical and objective buyer, you probably are not (or if you are, you are in a minority).

 

[dagfinn]

And while you might think you are a very logical and objective buyer, you probably are not (or if you are, you are in a minority).

Hardly... both of these are 40 about years old. Who would buy stuff like this today?

 

[AHo]

The question is perhaps not whether a person is a logical/rational buyer or an emotional one, but rather what emotion supports the buying decision. In a product like this, I'd definitely want (apparent) proof that the product is high quality. Plus, I appreciate it to be different or innovative in a way that supports the function. So I can feel smart for choosing it.

 

[sigbergaudio]

New iteration of first part of the product page:

 

[sigbergaudio]

Now what?

 

[Salt]

Wow.
Nice to see the BR-port on the front now .

 

[Salt]

If it was for me I would install the woofers L/R for impulse compensation, but with them hidden on the back the optical design is of course much "sleaker" to the eye. May increase WAF a lot

 

[sigbergaudio]

Wow.
Nice to see the BR-port on the front now .

Might move back again

 

[markstein]

View attachment 382062



Now what?

Now you have a concept comparable to a Dutch & Dutch 8c in a different form factor...

 

[sigbergaudio]

Now you have a concept comparable to a Dutch & Dutch 8c in a different form factor...

Hehe, I guess the rear bass drivers is a similarity yes. But this is a coax, a floorstander, a ported enclosure.. so there are still quite a few differences too

 

[markstein]

You are right of course

Anyway, it will be interesting to see whether the back placement of both bass drivers effectively reduces SBIR to back wall and floor (?) and how they blend with the mid bass driver. Hope you will share your measurements once available.
Question is how this setup compares with two drivers opposite, one on each side.

 

[sigbergaudio]

You are right of course

Anyway, it will be interesting to see whether the back placement of both bass drivers effectively reduces SBIR to back wall and floor (?) and how they blend with the mid bass driver. Hope you will share your measurements once available.
Question is how this setup compares with two drivers opposite, one on each side.

Red is front mounted drivers, green is rear mounted (no smoothing). This is measured at the listening position, and only one specific room of course, but simulations show promise that this will be universally better, and is supported in theory as well that the drivers should be as close to the wall as possible.