If Amir is down for it, I am. Not immediately clear whether there are shenanigans I should be aware of with stands (motors? RFI transmitters?), but I doubt it.
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Shootout - Superb Measuring cheap DAC against hi-end DAC - measuring tool - the "ears"
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Any of you see the stands used at medical procedure rooms like cardiac catheterization labs where precision is paramount? They’re barebones and functional- none of the snake oil used to sell all these expensive component stands. If it’s good enough to support the equipment used to put tiny stents in your heart and brain it should be good enough for your music equipment.
And as mentioned before the cables are basic and all coiled up next to each other.
And as mentioned before the cables are basic and all coiled up next to each other.
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snapcrackle
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Hah - don't let yourself be reeled in Zanzibar - you are certainly no sucker (I know through my own experience) - you can sit back in comfort knowing full well that your have invested wisely in that Monaco rack.
That summarizes the thinking of the 'high end.'
Ignore the science, make sure your testing is only done in a way that supports the conclusions you've already drawn, make whatever silly claims you like, then simply bask in the glow of your golden ears.
Reinforcing ignorance in other words...
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snapcrackle
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I'm basking .... so's ZZ I guess.
Taken at face value, you're arguing that microphonics don't exist anywhere, because they apparently aren't a concern in this apparently demanding environment. Sorry, but that's not scientific.
Audio equipment oftentimes sits next to things like subwoofers at high SPL. Medical equipment generally doesn't. MRIs notwithstanding, I bet there are no generic electronic devices just lying around in those rooms.
I know there's been some back-and-forth with some electronic luminaries that I respect, but I still haven't seen any actual testing of consumer-grade kit (other than TTs) and sensitivity - or lack thereof - to vibration.
Thanks. Was just reading about some small tube comparisons. One writer noted that although we can't see differences in the tests of these tubes, people can hear the differences.
I've been in that camp as I went through a slew of 6SN7 tubes at one time or another. Depending on your system, the differences may vary but I know that my experience made me move away from the New Sensor Tungsol version.
No, high end isn't the defining point. It's listening. Anyone can deploy some audio isolation cheaply themselves if they like.
People use chrome balls in holders, (not commercial) with inner tubes with equipment. As I no longer have the Grand Prix Monaco stand, I have my tube monblocks sitting on my own creation and yes, it works.
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snapcrackle
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Tubes do make a system sound good - I have a Croft amplifier from here in the UK that uses valves (tubes as you say over the pond) - and I also have a some good solid state amps which never seems to involve me as much in the music as the Croft. Somehow tubes add dimensionality to the sound - to be fair to the science and measuring buffs out there - it could be that the tubes are 'enhancing' the sound, but in a good way that our ears like (well my ears especially). I thought I would add that last bit in before a swarm of naysayer boffins come swooping in
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Oh my...
We do need that Manifesto, quickly.
We do need that Manifesto, quickly.
For $3K to 5K/stand, I hope you had a great talk with him.
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Tubes do make a system sound good - I have a Croft amplifier from here in the UK that uses valves (tubes as you say over the pond) - and I also have a some good solid state amps which never seems to involve me as much in the music as the Croft. Somehow tubes add dimensionality to the sound - to be fair to the science and measuring buffs out there - it could be that the tubes are 'enhancing' the sound, but in a good way that our ears like (well my ears especially). I thought I would add that last bit in before a swarm of naysayer boffins come swooping in
Tubes add distortion elements and those elements can change depending on hard they are driven. Nothing wrong what so ever with that.
Knuckle rap test on idle DAC and ADC
I don't see anything.
Note: New version of REW's Peak trace shows Peak reading, and not the average, so it offsets a bit from the RTA trace.
"The RTA peak trace now reflects the highest levels of each block processed rather than the highest level of the averaged trace"
'scuse my cheap cable (?) noise
Human Bass
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LOL, so much BS.
"The mechanical energy transmitted through the floor, the walls or the air is a constant, in the sense that it impacts the whole system to the same extent – unless you take steps to protect it. But the degree and impact of the self-generated energy produced within your equipment varies considerably. That energy comes from transformers and power supplies, transports and other moving parts, or just from components passing the signal. So the nature of each unit and the size and type of components it uses has a profound impact on both the amount of internal energy it produces and the nature of that energy. "
Was just doing some tube research and came across the discussion on the Steve Hoffman site.
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv
Yup, it was hard to argue with a money back guarantee. If for any reason not happy, just send it back.
I was a skeptic. Then when I tried it with my system, it never went back.
So little understanding will lead to an ignorant conclusion. People are doing DIY isolation platforms with inner tubes and chrome balls to float and achieve some of the same gains.
I'm doing that too and know that it works. There is energy transmitted on both horizontal and vertical planes. We don't know or experience it all but when it's removed the audio reflects it.
Maybe try it and then experience it before concluding. Based on my experience, even a mid-fi system will see an audible impact.
This is a science based website where although science dominated and is respected, subjective audio system choices are also respected - as long as the proponent doesn't "claim" that their unconfirmed impressions reflect reality in the physical world.
This thread contains yet more hogwash - subjective blather - consisting of more very questionable audiophile claims about the efficacy of expensive isolation stands based on "sighted listening", a technique that has been proven time and again to be quite fallible. I have not seen any science presented that would support these claims when even the tiniest mechanical vibrations can be easily measured with homemade equipment (see the video in my next post).
Audiophile b.s. like these claims makes this former physical science research technician cringe at the ridiculous posts about subjective impressions of "sonic improvement" due to vibration isolation. Those claims are based on highly biased sighted listening impressions about simple physical phenomena that were not measured and confirmed - but could be measured easily.
Confirmation via blind testing - even simple setups like the above video that I posted earlier - would go a long way in convincing me that there is merit in said claims about isolation stands/racks in this thread.)
This thread contains yet more hogwash - subjective blather - consisting of more very questionable audiophile claims about the efficacy of expensive isolation stands based on "sighted listening", a technique that has been proven time and again to be quite fallible. I have not seen any science presented that would support these claims when even the tiniest mechanical vibrations can be easily measured with homemade equipment (see the video in my next post).
Audiophile b.s. like these claims makes this former physical science research technician cringe at the ridiculous posts about subjective impressions of "sonic improvement" due to vibration isolation. Those claims are based on highly biased sighted listening impressions about simple physical phenomena that were not measured and confirmed - but could be measured easily.
Confirmation via blind testing - even simple setups like the above video that I posted earlier - would go a long way in convincing me that there is merit in said claims about isolation stands/racks in this thread.)
@March Audio , since you have extensive professional experience at Rolls Royce and elsewhere on vibration measurement and analysis, do you think my above reasoning is sound? And do you think that the below DIY seismometer/accelerometer would be useful in measuring vibrations that might affect audio components? Could the design in the video be adapted to easily measure vibrations of the shelves of an audio stand/rack - or the actual cases of the audio components themselves? Perhaps by attaching an accelerometer directly to a surface? (This might be a fun home experiment for some of our mechanically-inclined members to contribute to audio science with a "peer-reviewed" set of experiments. The "challenge-loving peers," of course, being ASR members.)
Has anyone else among the science-oriented regulars here come across objective instrumented testing of so-called audio isolation racks and stands - and the existence of vibrations that need to be damped? Here in Panama, where most houses are built with poured concrete floors covered with ceramic tile, and cement block walls, we don't have the same room vibration issues as houses built with wood or metal beams and wall studs. [That is why audio systems here sound 27% better here than back in California. (/snark)]
Has anyone else among the science-oriented regulars here come across objective instrumented testing of so-called audio isolation racks and stands - and the existence of vibrations that need to be damped? Here in Panama, where most houses are built with poured concrete floors covered with ceramic tile, and cement block walls, we don't have the same room vibration issues as houses built with wood or metal beams and wall studs. [That is why audio systems here sound 27% better here than back in California. (/snark)]
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