solderdude
Grand Contributor
How many times does it have to be repeated. NOT all DACs sound the same. There are those that measure (and sound) so much different from 'decently designed' DACs that it can be explained why they sound different.
With some DACs you can even get the same DAC to sound different by choosing the 'wrong' filter, one that has a substantial effect within the audible range (for younger folks).
ALL DACs measure differently. This is evident when you look at the plots shown here and elsewhere. That doesn't mean they also SOUND different.
There is such a thing as an audibility threshold. Measurements greatly exceed those thresholds. They can measure far beyond and below what is audible to even the most discerning listener. (that's what some find the arrogant part).
The real problem is those that do not believe in measurements, largely because they do not understand audible limits and what the plots can/do actually tell those that do understand them, and thus conclude measurements say nothing.
Also people don't tend to understand there is a HUGE gap between electrical measurements and acoustical measurements and assume electrical meausurements do not cover everything. The age old 'but music is dynamic and not static' argument is used by lack of understanding between acoustics, electronics and above all the workings of the brain.
Then there is the fact that most people who hear differences do so knowing what is playing and when they happen to test blind don't level match down to 0.1dB. Mostly because they don't know how or think it doesn't matter when comparing.
It's those folks that keep on popping up here telling folks they are wrong, arrogant, mistaken. Why ? because their ears tell them so. They are so confident they can clearly hear differences they don't even NEED to properly blind test. They are convinced audio and hearing is magical of sorts. Technicians are still in the dark ages etc.
That's the reason this thread exists. How to deal with those folks. Simply telling them they need to properly test 'blind' simply doesn't work because they won't. Their ears told them so and they are telling the truth. The thread is not there to tell the world all DACs sound the same. They don't (by engineering or lack of it)
NO not all DACs sound the same. The decent ones (which can be picked based on measurements) DO. And when someone has compelling evidence they don't 'we' would like to see that evidence and how that evidence was obtained. Under what conditions. If you can't (because you didn't use the proper controls) simply don't vent your opinion here just because you clearly heard differences.
With some DACs you can even get the same DAC to sound different by choosing the 'wrong' filter, one that has a substantial effect within the audible range (for younger folks).
ALL DACs measure differently. This is evident when you look at the plots shown here and elsewhere. That doesn't mean they also SOUND different.
There is such a thing as an audibility threshold. Measurements greatly exceed those thresholds. They can measure far beyond and below what is audible to even the most discerning listener. (that's what some find the arrogant part).
The real problem is those that do not believe in measurements, largely because they do not understand audible limits and what the plots can/do actually tell those that do understand them, and thus conclude measurements say nothing.
Also people don't tend to understand there is a HUGE gap between electrical measurements and acoustical measurements and assume electrical meausurements do not cover everything. The age old 'but music is dynamic and not static' argument is used by lack of understanding between acoustics, electronics and above all the workings of the brain.
Then there is the fact that most people who hear differences do so knowing what is playing and when they happen to test blind don't level match down to 0.1dB. Mostly because they don't know how or think it doesn't matter when comparing.
It's those folks that keep on popping up here telling folks they are wrong, arrogant, mistaken. Why ? because their ears tell them so. They are so confident they can clearly hear differences they don't even NEED to properly blind test. They are convinced audio and hearing is magical of sorts. Technicians are still in the dark ages etc.
That's the reason this thread exists. How to deal with those folks. Simply telling them they need to properly test 'blind' simply doesn't work because they won't. Their ears told them so and they are telling the truth. The thread is not there to tell the world all DACs sound the same. They don't (by engineering or lack of it)
NO not all DACs sound the same. The decent ones (which can be picked based on measurements) DO. And when someone has compelling evidence they don't 'we' would like to see that evidence and how that evidence was obtained. Under what conditions. If you can't (because you didn't use the proper controls) simply don't vent your opinion here just because you clearly heard differences.
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