Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?

[watchnerd]

All you people debating -120dB angels-on-the-head-of-a-needle DAC differences better vote in the blind tube rolling rips when I start posting them so you can at least debate things that are audible.

 

[sergeauckland]

I gotta say I have never encountered this perspective before. Thanks for sharing. I suppose this is where it has to go ultimately if you rely solely on measurements/accuracy. I just never thought of it that far.

So I have questions! Please don't feel like I'm piling on you. It's just a new perspective to me.

If everything sounds not very good, then you would be satisfied that you were getting an accurate albeit not pleasing sound?

What about if you had hearing loss and a boost in high frequencies helped things out? Would you rather stick with accurate because that's was more accurate? How do you feel about room correction?
Would you be willing to go a step further and go headphones only and eliminate the room as a factor? Headphones can have remarkably low distortion compared to speakers.

If everything were to sound not very good, then I would look to the measurements for a reason. If there wasn't one, then I would think it was my hearing that day. I would still work on the principle that the equipment was right and therefore I must be wrong.

With hearing loss, and at my age, my HF hearing is well down on what it was in my youth, I don't apply any correction as then everything else I hear, normal speech and domestic sounds would be different. My hearing is what it is now, and reproduced music must has to take its chances along with all other sounds.

I don't like headphones, as I prefer my music to be presented in front of me, as 'normal', rather than all in my head. I don't use room correction as my room is reasonably benign, and if I equalised the music for the room, then everyday noises and speech would sound 'wrong' as they would still pick up the room colorations. I find that if a room is pleasant acoustically for normal domestic purposes, it works well enough for HiFi. I have equalised my 'speakers to be flat anechoically, so they don't add excessively to any room colorations. Headphones may well have lower distortion, but I've not found any that were as satisfying as my loudspeakers.

S

 

[GrimSurfer]

Ok @lowiqaudiophilewgoldenear, you lost my attention when you invoked the Nordic Gods that are Schiit. I didn't figure that you were that kind of subjectivist, but I was wrong.

I'm now prepared for this to eventually turn into a cable or cartridge discussion. Thanks for the head's up.

PS. Don't forget to virtue signal or throw in a "dude" or "bro" into the discussion. It will earn you a 9.9 on the @SIY scale.

 

[watchnerd]

Ok @lowiqaudiophilewgoldenear
I'm now prepared for this to eventually turn into a cable or cartridge discussion. Thanks for the head's up.

Okay, I'll bite:

Are you implying that differences among cartridges are on par with the differences (or, rather, lack thereof) amongst DACs?

 

[GrimSurfer]

Okay, I'll bite:

Are you implying that differences among cartridges are on par with the differences (or, rather, lack thereof) amongst DACs?

LOL.

 

[Thomas savage]

Come on man. You need to work on your trolling. Yours isn't up to snuff. We've seen attempted trolling done much more adroitly than you are doing on this forum.

I troll you all much better than this... Very disappointing.

 

[watchnerd]

I troll you all much better than this... Very disappointing.

Yes, but you're a master given you started training at the knee of your mum as she strolled the alleys offering quickies for quid...

It's not fair.

 

[GrimSurfer]

Yes, but you're a master given you started training at the knee of your mum as she strolled the alleys offering quickies for quid...

It's not fair.

Was his mom a politician too?

 

[lowiqaudiophilewgoldenear]

Ok @lowiqaudiophilewgoldenear, you lost my attention when you invoked the Nordic Gods that are Schiit. I didn't figure that you were that kind of subjectivist, but I was wrong.

I'm now prepared for this to eventually turn into a cable or cartridge discussion. Thanks for the head's up.

PS. Don't forget to virtue signal or throw in a "dude" or "bro" into the discussion. It will earn you a 9.9 on the @SIY scale.

Dude, you can't possibly think a factory phono cartridge on a big box store record player sounds as sublime as the exquisite cartridges hand made in brooklyn by the geniuses at Grado Labs. Thats just preposterous.

 

[watchnerd]

Was his mom a politician too?

Popular enough to run for office, maybe.

 

[watchnerd]

Dude, you can't possibly think a factory phono cartridge on a big box store record player sounds as sublime as the exquisite cartridges hand made in brooklyn by the geniuses at Grado Labs. Thats just preposterous.

Sorry, troll fail.

If you want to talk hand-made exquisite cartridges, Koetsu is the name you should be throwing about.

Grado. Brooklyn. Pfffft......

 

[BDWoody]

Dude, you can't possibly think a factory phono cartridge on a big box store record player sounds as sublime as the exquisite cartridges hand made in brooklyn by the geniuses at Grado Labs. Thats just preposterous.

You're just phoning it in now...

Come on...you can do better than that.

 

[GrimSurfer]

Sorry, troll fail.

If you want to talk hand-made exquisite cartridges, Koetsu is the name you should be throwing about.

Grado. Brooklyn. Pfffft......

I agree, @watchnerd. The cartridge has to be made of jade and come from the hands of a hereditary Japanese swordsmith to even rate an audition.

 

[watchnerd]

I agree, @watchnerd. The cartridge has to be made of jade and come from the hands of a hereditary Japanese swordsmith to even rate an audition.

I know, right?

This:

Versus:

Which one says "exquisite"?

 

[Hugo9000]

I agree, @watchnerd. The cartridge has to be made of jade and come from the hands of a hereditary Japanese swordsmith to even rate an audition.

Koetsu doesn't appear to specify if they use jadeite or nephrite in their "jade" cartridges. That seems suspect to me. Probably synthetic or some other stone altogether, and they just say "jade" in an attempt to impress the general public, who don't know of the important distinctions between the two types.

If one actually believes that blue onyx (higher priced than the "jade" cartridge, for example) is superior to other minerals for use in cartridges, then surely it's obvious that jadeite and nephrite with different hardness and other properties cannot be conflated. FAIL! Do some customers "luck out" and get jadeite, while other customers get nephrite (or vice versa, jadeite is considered superior as a gem or for sculptures, but nephrite might be superior as a cartridge material haha).

So even if it isn't all just snake oil, Koetsu would still be guilty of potential fraud! hahaha!

Now, if they had amber cartridges with Triassic Era thrips trapped inside, that would be worth something, even if it had no sonic benefit haha!

 

[GrimSurfer]

Not jade? You've shattered my entire belief system that underpins the audio business.

Not like shattered diamond or lead crystal, but like glass.

LOL.

 

[GrimSurfer]

I know, right?

This:
Versus:
Which one says "exquisite"?

The one where "dude" has cool tats, a boss piercing, and is wearing a toque to keep his natty dreds on the down-lo?

 

[Degru]

Honestly, I'm not fully reconciled on my opinions about this subject myself. I'm definitely sure there are things we haven't "properly" measured and quantified about headphones, so why not about DACs? But then, I haven't done a proper level matched blind test of DACs due to lack of proper setup, so I can't be sure on that front.

As for the gear I actually use, I use my phone a lot, and while I can definitely notice the difference between the built in amp and my dedicated amp, I am certainly not confident on the differences between DACs. I don't have the gear to measure it, either, which is a bit annoying... When using the same amp (Fiio A5) I *think* I can hear a difference between my Geekout 1000 (my desktop source) and my phone built in when level matched via multimeter, but im again not really sure.

So I'm kind of agnostic, and one foot in both camps. I don't argue when people say one dac > another, but I don't really propagate that idea myself.

 

[ashleydoormat]

@solderdude
How did you make your cables measurably and audibly different than other cables?

@LTig
I still have the power cables but the amps and speakers are not with me at my current location. I'm really curious I'll ask a friend to help me with some blind tests next time I have access to the gears.

Blind tests with the iems maybe a bit difficult I'll see how to make it work. I'll stay open minded that I might not hear any difference next time!

Thanks guys it's really enlightening!

 

[digicidal]

I'm still amazed in the age of built-in spell checking how someone with an advanced education fails to properly spell so many words in every post. Maybe one more English course and one less calculus or statistics course would have been beneficial. Even trolls need some basic standards of communication. We've got some people on here for whom English is a second, third or ? language that don't butcher things nearly that badly.

And I'm overlooking "conswequence" simply because that's likely just a fat-finger typo - assuming you aren't using a Dvorak keyboard.