Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?

[Julf]

It's good to have varying opinions and ideas.

There are opinions and there are factually incorrect claims. "I prefer Sibelius over Shostakovich" is an opinion. "2 + 2 = 5" or "24/192 sounds better than 16/48" are factually incorrect claims. They are not equivalent.

 

[Frank Dernie]

There are opinions and there are factually incorrect claims. "I prefer Sibelius over Shostakovich" is an opinion. "2 + 2 = 5" or "24/192 sounds better than 16/48" are factually incorrect claims. They are not equivalent.

Quite so.
Populism has encouraged people to accept a blurring, if not even complete abandonment, of facts v opinion.
Opinions discredited by facts but held dear by those to whom they appeal are not unique to hifi.

 

[Julf]

Quite so.
Populism has encouraged people to accept a blurring, if not even complete abandonment, of facts v opinion.
Opinions discredited by facts but held dear by those to whom they appeal are not unique to hifi.

Indeed. As an early Internet pioneer I often feel guilty. The good thing about the Internet is that it allows anyone to express their opinion. The bad thing about the Internet is that it allows anyone to express their opinion.

 

[Robin L]

I have detected some intellectual rigidity from the keepers of the flame here. Any time someone suggests that they prefer the sound of their tube gear, pitchforks and tiki torches emerge. I am very interested in the measurements side of ASR, that appears to be the primary work of this forum. At the same time, I am also paying attention to, and being amused by, high-end audio's desire to re-invent the wheel, start all over with the simplest triode circuit designs, revived antique turntables and art deco loudspeakers. Forward into the past. I guess it costs a lot more money to go back in time than forward. Eventually the Parsons-Short Auxetophone will be revived:

"How do I deal with people thinking a DAC has a Sound Signature?" To be perfectly honest, I can't recall having that conversation with anyone, any least not anyone in a room with me. My motivation all along has been to be an audio cheapskate. Searching out the so-called "Giant Killers". ASR makes it much easier to find such mythic beasts, as Amirm's unvarnished opinions [always with data to back it up] make it easy to compare similar audio gear with radically different pricings. I've been fortunate enough to buy some new gear. ASR has been very helpful in steering me to the best performance at the lowest price.

The last time anyone asked me about sound reproduction my answer was "get a soundbar". I showed my wife my new headphones yesterday, she was neither impressed or really interested. Didn't mean a thing to her. Most conversations with people who are not obsessed with audio gear are like that.

 

[wasnotwasnotwas]

There are opinions and there are factually incorrect claims. "I prefer Sibelius over Shostakovich" is an opinion. "2 + 2 = 5" or "24/192 sounds better than 16/48" are factually incorrect claims. They are not equivalent.

Something which eludes many to this day. I am reaching the conclusion that ignoring is better than trying to argue the toss with someone that thinks they dont need to do controlled testing to make claims that fly in the face of the science.

 

[Sukie]

"How do I deal with people thinking a DAC has a Sound Signature?" To be perfectly honest, I can't recall having that conversation with anyone, any least not anyone in a room with me.

That made me giggle. I don't think that any of my family (or most of my friends, come to think of it) even know what a DAC is. A more relevant question in my house would be:

"How do I deal with teenagers who shout "Dad, the wi-fi's not working" instead of just switching off the powerline adapter and then switching it back on again?... even though I have explained this to them a MILLION TIMES!!!"

 

[raif71]

There are opinions and there are factually incorrect claims. "I prefer Sibelius over Shostakovich" is an opinion. "2 + 2 = 5" or "24/192 sounds better than 16/48" are factually incorrect claims. They are not equivalent.

Just keeping stuff in perspective. Whatever this thread is aiming at ie keeping people straight, there will be other people who have different opinions and ideas ... c'est la vie

 

[Julf]

Just keeping stuff in perspective. Whatever this thread is aiming at ie keeping people straight, there will be other people who have different opinions and ideas ... c'est la vie

I guess you missed my point about the difference between opinions and ideas on one hand and factually incorrect claims on the other?

 

[raif71]

I guess you missed my point about the difference between opinions and ideas on one hand and factually incorrect claims on the other?

yes, there will be people who do not agree with factual claims

 

[wasnotwasnotwas]

yes, there will be people who do not agree with factual claims

There are several words to describe such people. "Wrong" and/or "ignorant" are at the more polite end of the scale.

 

[Sukie]

yes, there will be people who do not agree with factual claims

If you don't agree with a factual claim then surely you would want to provide counter-evidence. Otherwise we are truly in a post-truth world!

 

[mansr]

Someone suggested a great response to people making silly claims:
"I could agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong."

 

[BDWoody]

.

yes, there will be people who do not agree with factual claims

Factual claims are facts.

People disagreeing with facts are simply ignorant.

Some sites encourage and reward ignorance.

This site encourages and rewards learning and knowledge.

It tends to penalize determined, arrogant ignorance.

I think that's just the nature of this beast. Some see it as harsh, but it's a cold, cruel world...and there is a lot of dishonest marketing that costs a lot of people a lot of money.

Simply nodding politely when someone is completely wrong just isn't going to happen here.

 

[raif71]

.


Factual claims are facts.

People disagreeing with facts are simply ignorant.

Some sites encourage and reward ignorance.

This site encourages and rewards learning and knowledge.

It tends to penalize determined, arrogant ignorance.

I think that's just the nature of this beast. Some see it as harsh, but it's a cold, cruel world...and there is a lot of dishonest marketing that costs a lot of people a lot of money.

Just nodding politely when someone is completely wrong just isn't going to happen here.

ok

 

[PenguinMusic]

yes, there will be people who do not agree with factual claims

Am I part of those if I say :
"I understand your claims. And there is no way I can tell those claims are wrong or disagree. But despite those claims, for totally subjective, personal and irrational reasons, I still will go for something else" ?

 

[raif71]

Am I part of those if I say :
"I understand your claims. And there is no way I can tell those claims are wrong or disagree. But despite those claims, for totally subjective, personal and irrational reasons, I still will go for something else" ?

yeah, maybe something like that

 

[PenguinMusic]

Ouch... I am ignorant then :-(

My ego bleeds...

 

[sergeauckland]

Am I part of those if I say :
"I understand your claims. And there is no way I can tell those claims are wrong or disagree. But despite those claims, for totally subjective, personal and irrational reasons, I still will go for something else" ?

This is the part I don't understand. If you know your reasons are subjective, personal and irrational, especially the last, why would you still go with them?

S.

 

[Julf]

This is the part I don't understand. If you know your reasons are subjective, personal and irrational, especially the last, why would you still go with them?

"That's human nature, Mr Spock".

 

[PenguinMusic]

This is the part I don't understand. If you know your reasons are subjective, personal and irrational, especially the last, why would you still go with them?

S.

Hi,

That a damn good question...

But that assumes the irrational can be explained. And if it is rational then there simply is no explanation for it.

Like : I know my DAC/AMP A (or whatever else) has lesser measurements than this DAC/AMP B.
Still, when I am listening to the lesser one (that would be A), I personnally and subjectively prefer what I hear coming out of that more than what I hear coming out o fhte scientifically better one (B).
I am biased and all... But I of course
- I do not deny that the other one is objectively better (and that, as such, I SHOULD like it better) ;
- I just make a personal statement : I like it better.

Totally irrational.

I know.

I am aware of my own weakness :-(