SEOS waveguides, anyone?

[Dynamix]

I've been reading up on these things lately, and I must say I find them very interesting. Supposedly they give you the upsides of horns, but without the downsides. Some examples:

http://horns.pl/en/speaker-sets/fp15/

http://horns-diy.pl/horns/seos/seos-18-1/

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/fusion-12/fusion12-kit.html

Any thoughts, gentlemen?

 

[Dynamix]

And I think that Fusion-12 Tempest kit just might have my name on it... Not much money, so it could be worth a try?

 

[Sal1950]

And I think that Fusion-12 Tempest kit just might have my name on it... Not much money, so it could be worth a try?

I'd go for it, looks very promising.
We seem to be entering a new golden age of horns. The Japanese have been at it for a long time but the North American audiophool market has been turning their noses up and making the cupped hands caricature for way too many years.
Phoolish people have refused to open their minds and ears to the things good horns do in ways that can be heard from most nothing else, their loss.

Whats funny is I can machine metal to .0001" but have never been able to make wood do my bidding so always avoided working with it.

 

[ChrisH]

I have thought about picking up a pair of Raal waveguides and trying to work them into a new enclosure for my present speakers. It would be a fun project to work on, but other things take precedent at the moment.

 

[Thomas savage]

I've been reading up on these things lately, and I must say I find them very interesting. Supposedly they give you the upsides of horns, but without the downsides. Some examples:

http://horns.pl/en/speaker-sets/fp15/

http://horns-diy.pl/horns/seos/seos-18-1/

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/fusion-12/fusion12-kit.html

Any thoughts, gentlemen?

Go for it mate

 

[hvbias]

I was interested in them in the past. The reasons I moved on- the DIY systems I've seen didn't have measurements at the crossover with the midwoofer that showed directivity matching. I imagine something like a GPA Altec 515 or 416 in a bass reflex cabinet plus an appropriately sized SEOS waveguide would sound pretty good. I don't have a lot of favorite hifi writers, but one I follow and tend to share similar tastes with is going with a similar system, except with a JMLC horn and not SEOS.

I'd go for it, looks very promising.
We seem to be entering a new golden age of horns. The Japanese have been at it for a long time but the North American audiophool market has been turning their noses up and making the cupped hands caricature for way too many years.
Phoolish people have refused to open their minds and ears to the things good horns do in ways that can be heard from most nothing else, their loss.

Whats funny is I can machine metal to .0001" but have never been able to make wood do my bidding so always avoided working with it.

It's because most commercial horn systems displayed at hifi shows sound bad, so it's not unusual for mainstream audiophiles to have some apprehension. And as humans once we have a handful of negative experiences behind us it takes a greater effort to sway our minds in another direction. And these shows are sighted so inherent biases from previous poor experiences can mask positive attributes.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Agreed, horns, like a lot of other speaker technologies, are more of a fashion statement than they are about sonics. "In" this year, they might be "out" next year, as the next fave fad rolls out.

But, I am anti-horns for one simple reason: Art Dudley of Stereophile thinks they are great, and restored vintage Altecs are his thing, currently. Sad! I will move in a different direction.

 

[oivavoi]

Does Art Dudley know that his power of persuasion is that great, even though it might not be quite like he imagines it to be?

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Does Art Dudley know that his power of persuasion is that great, even though it might not be quite like he imagines it to be?

I suspect he does. And, given that he was promoted to #2 Editor at the mag a few years ago, he would seem to have some reinforcement for his stature.

I love reading the guy because he is a great and entertaining writer. But, it it like information from a different planet, some other bizzaro world. I have at one time or another heard much of the nostalgic gear he fixates on ages ago. I do not believe a word he says.

 

[hvbias]

Agreed, horns, like a lot of other speaker technologies, are more of a fashion statement than they are about sonics. "In" this year, they might be "out" next year, as the next fave fad rolls out.

But, I am anti-horns for one simple reason: Art Dudley of Stereophile thinks they are great, and restored vintage Altecs are his thing, currently. Sad! I will move in a different direction.

The horns/waveguides being discussed on this board (no comment on the desperate dealers subforum, yikes!) are the objectively designed ones for directivity control advocated by people like Floyd Toole and Earl Geddes, backed up by controlled listening tests. Pretty much speakers designed to be neutral. These aren't the horns of yesteryear like theater horns or multiple round horns stacked on top of each other. Regarding my other post I was definitely not referring to Art Dudley.

 

[Sal1950]

It's because most commercial horn systems displayed at hifi shows sound bad, so it's not unusual for mainstream audiophiles to have some apprehension.

Sometimes it may not be an issue of a speaker sounding "bad" as it is people listening for and appreciating different qualities in a speaker.

 

[watchnerd]

And I think that Fusion-12 Tempest kit just might have my name on it... Not much money, so it could be worth a try?

Isn't the Fusion 12 designed primarily for home theater?

I thought I recalled reading somewhere that it's so-so on music.

 

[Dynamix]

Isn't the Fusion 12 designed primarily for home theater?

I thought I recalled reading somewhere that it's so-so on music.

I think there was an earlier model that was less than perfect, but the current one is more "refined". This one seems pretty much flat from 40hz and up. Looks good to me.

 

[Dynamix]

How about this:

http://www.parts-express.com/faitalpro-15pr400-15-neodymium-professional-woofer-8-ohm--294-1271

http://www.parts-express.com/faital...ompression-horn-driver-8-ohm-4-bolt--294-1023

http://horns-diy.pl/horns/seos/seos-18-14-15/

It may not be "Hi FI", more like "Fun Fi", but I have a feeling it could be a pretty damn nice two-way. Run it with a Minidsp 2x4HD (with Dirac) and some Anaview class D amp modules?

 

[Dynamix]

Sometimes it may not be an issue of a speaker sounding "bad" as it is people listening for and appreciating different qualities in a speaker.

This is a good point. Like I mentioned in another thread, I absolutely loved the Klipsch Heresy III's I had. But some people absolutely hate them.

 

[Sal1950]

This is a good point. Like I mentioned in another thread, I absolutely loved the Klipsch Heresy III's I had. But some people absolutely hate them.

I ran a set of Klipsch La Scala's for 32 years doing a couple driver and crossover updates over time. When sold they were equal to the current La Scala IIs with only the newer bass cabinet material being more rigid. With quality sources they were and are amazing sounding speakers. I completely agree with Sam Telig's 2007 review of them for Stereophile.
http://www.soundhifi.com/klipsch/sam.htm

 

[watchnerd]

This is a good point. Like I mentioned in another thread, I absolutely loved the Klipsch Heresy III's I had. But some people absolutely hate them.

I've been tempted to get a set of Hereseys, either new or used, more than once.

Why did you get rid of yours?

 

[Dynamix]

Oooh, La Scala's. Nice.

 

[Dynamix]

I've been tempted to get a set of Hereseys, either new or used, more than once.

Why did you get rid of yours?

I got an offer to trade them for the JBL 4319's I currently have. So I did. Just wanted to try something different.

But I gotta admit, I miss them now and then. A pair of HIII's and some subs would be awesome.

 

[hvbias]

How about this:

http://www.parts-express.com/faitalpro-15pr400-15-neodymium-professional-woofer-8-ohm--294-1271

http://www.parts-express.com/faital...ompression-horn-driver-8-ohm-4-bolt--294-1023

http://horns-diy.pl/horns/seos/seos-18-14-15/

It may not be "Hi FI", more like "Fun Fi", but I have a feeling it could be a pretty damn nice two-way. Run it with a Minidsp 2x4HD (with Dirac) and some Anaview class D amp modules?

A very cheap waveguide if you are looking to experiment: http://www.parts-express.com/prv-audio-wg35-25-b-1-90-x-60-abs-waveguide-2-bolt--294-2892

It's a clone of another design which has been documented to work well. It's an end of life part so it will eventually be gone. I still need to pick one up to play around with. Patrick Bateman at DIYAudio said the QSC it is cloned from is excellent, I take his word given the amount of experience he has.

I would not use that PRV waveguide below 1200 Hz, so that sort of rules out 15" drivers to cross with; the pattern control just won't be that great that high with a 15". It would be more suitable with a smaller midwoofer.