Sennheiser HD800S Review (Headphone)

[infinitesymphony]

Hello, I am afraid or maybe paranoid...
I have tested for a short time to plug my HD 800S into an old amplifier which emits a constant low whistle/background noise and which crackles when I turn the volume button.

Is it possible that I have damaged my headphones ?

that sounds bad / little dirty / not clear / crackling...

Maybe, but probably not. I wouldn't continue using an amplifier with those symptoms because it sounds like it may have a failing power section.

 

[bluefuzz]

AutoEQ auto-generates its settings based on Oratory's (and others') measurements, but it does not use the proper Harman target (less bass, likely why you find it brighter).

You can use any target you like with AutoEQ. You just have to configure it properly ...

 

[thomz6]

Maybe, but probably not. I wouldn't continue using an amplifier with those symptoms because it sounds like it may have a failing power section.

thank you for your answer, i really hope i'm paranoid... cause of the headphones price ahaha
btw majority frequences/musics sound very well

 

[bobbooo]

You can use any target you like with AutoEQ. You just have to configure it properly ...

Sure, but most people won't bother with that and will just use the default already-generated EQ profiles, often without knowing they don't target the proper Harman curve. And then even if you configure it manually, as I mentioned it will still be agnostic to excessive distortion, non-minimum phase parts of the frequency response etc.

 

[mkawa]

Sound source doesn’t expose autoeq internals but pulls from a database of pre baked curve

 

[bobbooo]

Sound source doesn’t expose autoeq internals but pulls from a database of pre baked curve

Then it sounds like it just uses AutoEQ's default EQ settings which don't target the proper Harman curve.

 

[mkawa]

Any idea what they target? I’ve read the readme.md

they don’t sound half bad. Like was said above, bass light, more energy in the mid hi freqs

 

[Lbstyling]

I would need more time to analyze what is going on. As I noted though, my current hypothesis is exaggeration of certain frequencies above 5 kHz combined with the larger caps and maybe even driver design. If it is the latter aspects then measuring their effect is beyond our reach right now.

Is that what Rtings are measuring here?

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/sound-quality/passive-soundstage

The HD800s scores high on this parameter (top), seconded by the Hifiman Ananda, then the Sennheiser HD700.

Perhaps that's how/why Sennheiser rank their headphones in that order despite the HD700 and 800s measuring poorer in terms of distortion and FR without EQ.

 

[Feelas]

Is that what Rtings are measuring here?

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/sound-quality/passive-soundstage

The HD800s scores high on this parameter (top), seconded by the Hifiman Ananda, then the Sennheiser HD700.

Perhaps that's how/why Sennheiser rank their headphones in that order despite the HD700 and 800s measuring poorer in terms of distortion and FR without EQ.

@solderdude mentioned once that HD800s were the reference point, thus they must have the best score. And anyways the imaging notches & stuff are HATS dependent IIRC.

 

[HereYaGo]

he who does the score determines the score.

 

[solderdude]

he who does the score determines the score.

But what if the scoring is done based on measurements like Rtings and Oratory1990 ?
For Crinacle it is another matter.
A reason why I do not rate headphones at all.
Measurements only say so much and people evaluating things are biased.

Is that what Rtings are measuring here?

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/sound-quality/passive-soundstage

The HD800s scores high on this parameter (top), seconded by the Hifiman Ananda, then the Sennheiser HD700.

Rtings needed something to rate soundstage. A number produced by measurements. The HD800(S) has some of the best 'soundstage' and thus they looked in the frequency response for 'something' that has to do with pinna related effects and as they liked the HD800 (they didn't measure many headphones back then) they thought that response thus must be related to the measurement of the HD800.
That FR thus was taken as a reference for soundstage.

However, if that really were the most important aspect then simply lowering those specific bands in any headphone would increase soundstage.
It doesn't but became their 'reference'.
That dip also is angle and driver size/distance dependent and your and my ear may have it at a different frequency.

Those rigs dip around 10kHz and thus mask a peak when it is there. The weird thing is that when I sweep at those frequencies I never hear a dip there. Reason... Our ears may well 'dip' there but our brain knows this and knows it is direction dependent as well. (my theory based on my observations about sweeps and measurements)
Could also be that the frequency bands of our haircells are too wide and overlapping have something to do with not perceiving a dip where the microphone and analyzer do not work this way. That's why smoothing was invented. It often has a higher relation to perceived sound. certainly for dips.

 

[Lbstyling]

But what if the scoring is done based on measurements like Rtings and Oratory1990 ?
For Crinacle it is another matter.
A reason why I do not rate headphones at all.
Measurements only say so much and people evaluating things are biased.



Rtings needed something to rate soundstage. A number produced by measurements. The HD800(S) has some of the best 'soundstage' and thus they looked in the frequency response for 'something' that has to do with pinna related effects and as they liked the HD800 (they didn't measure many headphones back then) they thought that response thus must be related to the measurement of the HD800.
That FR thus was taken as a reference for soundstage.

However, if that really were the most important aspect then simply lowering those specific bands in any headphone would increase soundstage.
It doesn't but became their 'reference'.
That dip also is angle and driver size/distance dependent and your and my ear may have it at a different frequency.

Those rigs dip around 10kHz and thus mask a peak when it is there. The weird thing is that when I sweep at those frequencies I never hear a dip there. Reason... Our ears may well 'dip' there but our brain knows this and knows it is direction dependent as well. (my theory based on my observations about sweeps and measurements)
Could also be that the frequency bands of our haircells are too wide and overlapping have something to do with not perceiving a dip where the microphone and analyzer do not work this way. That's why smoothing was invented. It often has a higher relation to perceived sound. certainly for dips.

I have no experience with headphones, but in speaker/driver design, when you go for the top end of what can be done, you end up looking into the pistonic properties of driver diaphragms.

You can make drivers have a wide range for a speaker- s(ay 60hz to 2500hz) but when your requirements are too wide of a band, you end up having to go in one of 2 directions- either you have a compliant material, where it no longer acts as a piston for most of its range, but the modal breakup is 'soft' and wide Q. The ear seams less sensitive to this, and you can also use passive filters to drop the peaks etc.
The problem with this is that you can only correct for it at one location in space and you have to choose where this is. However, with speakers, you still hear much of the sound that is projected into different directions, just delayed after the fundamental as its just post bouncing off a surface in the room.

I can't say how this effect works inside a headphone casing, but I would 'guess' over earphones would be wave propagation and reflection affected by it in some way...Audibility at this distance of reflection, no idea.

The HD800s has what transducer designers call a ring radiator driver. The advantage of these is holding pistonic motion up to a relatively higher frequency.

In Speakers, the ultimate example would be the celestion Axi2050 or JBL 2430K

When working with a ring radiator, the designer has an improved ability to use a hard material, pushing the break up of the cone to higher frequencies where our hearing is less sensitive, or use cheaper materials in a more pistonic fashion. The Sennheisers opt for the latter is seems. I know AKG are using titanium, I wonder if they are Aquaplas coating the diaphragm or going raw?

Anyway, the ultimate option would be either a diaphragm made from uber expensive Berylium, or new materials like carbon based TExtreme. I am not aware of anyone using these in headphones, and would be surprised if Sennheiser had not been in contact with Materion to try this out, but then I'm new to the game!

 

[solderdude]

Headphone drivers and speakers are nothing alike.
That said... the Focal drivers seem to stem from their tweeters and so does Heddphone.

 

[edahl]

I ordered these at a sale to evaluate them in the peace and quiet of my home with EQ. Is the preference curve here Harman 2018? If so I'll perhaps get away with a bit less bass than 12 dB.

 

[buz]

I ordered these at a sale to evaluate them in the peace and quiet of my home with EQ. Is the preference curve here Harman 2018? If so I'll perhaps get away with a bit less bass than 12 dB.

Broadly speaking. Amir is a bass head, personally I am pretty ok with 5.5db lowshelf from 110hz that lets me get away with -6db preamp and I do like bass, too.

 

[Jimbob54]

I ordered these at a sale to evaluate them in the peace and quiet of my home with EQ. Is the preference curve here Harman 2018? If so I'll perhaps get away with a bit less bass than 12 dB.

Very similar but Amir says not identical to H 2018

 

[edahl]

Broadly speaking. Amir is a bass head, personally I am pretty ok with 5.5db lowshelf from 110hz that lets me get away with -6db preamp and I do like bass, too.

Haha a subtle 6.5dB difference. Thank you, I'll try that! Once they arrive

I wish Amir had got to the Arya and Ananda though, as those are perhaps my two closest candidates.

 

[Robbo99999]

I ordered these at a sale to evaluate them in the peace and quiet of my home with EQ. Is the preference curve here Harman 2018? If so I'll perhaps get away with a bit less bass than 12 dB.

Yep, the preference curve used by Amir is the 2018 Harman Curve, he just doesn't like to call it that because noone can strictly call it that.....because the Harman Research used a custom made pinna that is not available to purchase, but the GRAS units are very similar apparently and therefore it's quite valid to use the Harman Curve with those measurement apparatus.

 

[kanade96]

Hey guys is this the EQ settings that are currently recommended for HD800s at the moment?

When I'm configuring the curves via EqualizerAPO with Peace plugin, do I look at the values in the black boxes at the end and punch them in the corresponding fields?
Also does the program start automatically at the start up of Windows or do I have to manually open them every time I boot my computer?

Please excuse my ignorance as I'm new to this EQ shenanigan but, I just want to set it up correctly and forget about it.

 

[Robbo99999]

Hey guys is this the EQ settings that are currently recommended for HD800s at the moment?

When I'm configuring the curves via EqualizerAPO with Peace plugin, do I look at the values in the black boxes at the end and punch them in the corresponding fields?
Also does the program start automatically at the start up of Windows or do I have to manually open them every time I boot my computer?

Please excuse my ignorance as I'm new to this EQ shenanigan but, I just want to set it up correctly and forget about it.

Hi, you got your link from Oratory's listing on reddit right, in that case then that's fine.

Yes, you input the figures into Peace from the black box at the bottom of the pdf file (the box is labelled "Filter Settings").

The changes you make in Peace / EqualiserAPO are boot persistent, in as much as you don't need to run the program each time you start up your PC - it remembers the settings you last inputted via Peace / EqualiserAPO...it changes/writes something in the Windows Audio Chain that is boot persistent. Mind you, I'm a bit of a stickler and load up EqualiserAPO (I don't use Peace) each time I listen to music to check that it's configured properly, and to make sure that it's applying it's effect.....even though I know this is not necessary, ha!