Sennheiser HD560S Review (Headphone)

[tvrgeek]

I do not see why the rising bass distortion with level is a surprise. This is what happens as you approach X-Max with any driver. If it tells us anything, is don't turn it up loud enough to damage your hearing!

Mail trucks snowed in. Mine may be delayed. So along with covid and politics, snow does seem to slow the US mail.

 

[tvrgeek]

It can but isn't going to be much better than an external DAC.
The HD560S directly from a phone won't be satisfying at louder levels. Using an external amp with the phone's headphone output will.

Some confusion here.
Yes, phones out to an amp will have the drive for the headphones you are missing, BUT
Quality of the internal DAC is very poor. Apple Dongle is a solid step better by objective and subjective reviews, and a real good DAC, like the Atom another big step forward.
Your choice. You can go by increments and try just phones out and see how you like it.

 

[solderdude]

Forgive my lack of understanding .... an alternative to the dongle dac won't make a big difference? Say a Topping DX3 combo?

The apple dongle DAC is already transparent. So on the HD560S it won't make any audible difference from another DAC.
When using the Topping you will have to convert from lightning to USB and then into a DAC.
Just buying an external amp and maybe a lightning dongle DAC will be good enough.

 

[tvrgeek]

I though the Apple dongle was white opaque plastic

Apple dongle is very good, though not the equal of an JDS or Topping. BUT, it depends on what one has as a priority and their hearing preferences. A lot of people can hear the difference, but it is not worth the price. Others can't hear the difference and the extra cost is of no benefit. In my personal view, I am paying $250 for some cans and another $100 for an amp. I will pay the next $100 for the DAC. Not everyone has that luxury. To say it will be is a bit presumptuous. To say it very well might be, is more accurate. Only the OP knows for sure.

 

[pk500]

Thanks for the advice bud. The Schitt is out of stock in the UK outlet and the Topping will be a direct import from China. Of the 3 which is better?

I only have experience with the JDS Labs Atom+ DAC/amp stack, and it's terrific. Tons of clean power, no coloring of the sound. Only negative is plastic case and knob, which is the corner that was cut to drop the price to $210 total for this stack. The focus was placed on the design and circuitry, which is where it should be.

 

[pk500]

Ignorance ... I thought the digital signal source from my phone could be converted and amplified outside of the phone itself. So you can't bypass the internal circuitry?

Yes, you can. An external DAC will handle the processing if connected to your phone.

What are your source files? Streaming or local lossless? If streaming and most of the use will be at a desk, use your laptop as the streaming source and connect it via USB to a desktop DAC/amp stack. You'll get more power and better fidelity than with any portable amp or dongle at a comparable price.

I bought an iFi hip-dac (superb portable DAC-amp, BTW) about nine months ago, thinking I would need the portability. Then it turned out I spent 90 percent of my listening time at my desk, either working or relaxing. So, I'm selling my hip-dac and Apple Camera Connector and bought a JDS Labs Atom+ DAC/amp stack. Couldn't be happier.

Portable DAC/amps always will have compromises, power-wise and fidelity-wise, to desktop units at comparable prices. So, make sure portability is a very important option for you if you take that road.

 

[pk500]

Thanks PK500,

Good for on the go. However my phone battery is not very good at holding it's charge. I'll certainly have a look.

If that's the case, then any DAC/amp dongle without an internal battery will kill your phone power. Products like the TempoTec Sonata HD Pro, for example, especially in high gain.

The iFi hip-dac isn't a dongle, but it's portable with a battery that doesn't draw current from your phone. The $9 Apple Lightning dongle won't kill your phone's juice, though, since it's primarily a very good DAC for the money with very feeble amplification ability.

 

[tvrgeek]

I only have experience with the JDS Labs Atom+ DAC/amp stack, and it's terrific. Tons of clean power, no coloring of the sound. Only negative is plastic case and knob, which is the corner that was cut to drop the price to $210 total for this stack. The focus was placed on the design and circuitry, which is where it should be.

Well, for a lot more money, they have one generation older circuits in a machined case, the EL II. I think they are going to update it soon.

Looking for an excuse to move my Schiit to the desk and grab the Atom Amp for the main stereo. The problem with that is I would then be tempted to get the Topping PA5 which is serious overkill, but darn it looks sweet. Money money money. I'll consider when my cans get here. With my current 40 year old Yamahamers, my SMSL Tripath is not bad at all. I may open it up to see if it can be tweaked. Better power supply maybe. A Tripath is not a bad amp if well done.

 

[AyeYoYoYO]

As others have said , thats an open back dynamic driver issue more than a Senn issue. Trying to think of an OB DD that does significantly better and I can't off the top of my head. But at least there isnt too much bloat in the 100-200hz region to try and give the impression of more bass that some seem to have.

AKG K812 & BeyerDynamic DT-1990 are both open back dynamic drivers and both have very ample, and relatively flat bass response that extends well past audible range.

 

[Robbo99999]

AKG K812 & BeyerDynamic DT-1990 are both open back dynamic drivers and both have very ample, and relatively flat bass response that extends well past audible range.

HD560s isn't really bass deficient though, if you take a look at the dotted red line in this graph:

Sennheiser HD560S Review (Headphone)

I'm new here.... very new, and have little understanding of what I'm reading. I received these headphones as a gift to pair with my iphone. I always listen at home and would like some help in improving my listening experience with a budget of £300. Please be gentle. They're very good...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I add more bass up to Harman levels, but for an open backed headphone they deliver some of the most bass when considered in stock form.

 

[mononoaware]

for example recently, tygr 300r came out in limited edition.

Hi can you please provide a link to these special edition Tygr 300R? Also what is the name of this special edition?

I have browsed all products on Beyerdynamic EU official and I cannot find it. The only special editions I can find are of other models.

 

[don'ttrustauthority]

Okay. Recycle it properly. It will not matter in many cases because the US does not have federal or intergovernmental e-waste policies. 50-70% of e-waste collected in the US for recycling is exported to developing countries, which commonly ends up in the informal recycling sectors of Asia and West Africa. Electronics producers manufacture products with hazardous materials, e-waste is oftentimes dismantled without strict regulations or compliance so substances like heavy metals, flame retardants, and plastics produce public health risks. Due to the unregulated nature of the informal recycling sector in developing countries, US e-waste handlers are exporting resources which could have detrimental effects on not only humans handling the e-waste, but also the environment in areas where the e-waste is exported. It's a shame.

The EU is doing better in this regard. The EU currently recycles about 80% of the e-waste it collects. However, e-waste collection, recycling, and reuse are not equally effective in all EU member States.

I put it in the blue box like they say. I dunno about nuttin' else. America!

 

[don'ttrustauthority]

You have a pair of 414? Original from the early 80s?

I have a new grado 60x for trade, reviewed here, and others, not reviewed here.

 

[Bernard23]

Just acquired a pair today, out of the box two things immediately struck me, high clamp force, and I don't have a big head, far from it; and secondly where was the bass dynamics? Yes there was extension, but it was all a bit limp lettuce (context, I've got grado 325e and Hemp, plus some yamaha rh-5ma so I am used to rolled off bass and a bright presentation etc).
Detail in spades, which is more important that tonal accuracy for me, as that's what eq is for within reason, which leads onto a disappointing feature, the level of distortion with bass EQ. These phones are marketed as low distortion at high volumes blah blah. Clearly nothing special here.
After a day of intermittent listening whilst working in my office, I've warmed to them. Despite the vice like clamp, they don't hurt. I'm discovering new micro details not noticed before, and the treble is nice and clean. Their relatively high impedance means my LG V50 struggles to really drive them, and the volume knob on my element 2 is much more advanced than all of the other phones I use.

 

[Count Arthur]

high clamp force

Find a box, or some books, or something slightly wider than your head, remove the pads and leave the headphones on the box/books over night. If they're still too tight, put another book, or something 10 or 20mm thick under one ear and leave it another night. You can keep "shimming" with books and leaving it until you're happy.

 

[Robbo99999]

Just acquired a pair today, out of the box two things immediately struck me, high clamp force, and I don't have a big head, far from it; and secondly where was the bass dynamics? Yes there was extension, but it was all a bit limp lettuce (context, I've got grado 325e and Hemp, plus some yamaha rh-5ma so I am used to rolled off bass and a bright presentation etc).
Detail in spades, which is more important that tonal accuracy for me, as that's what eq is for within reason, which leads onto a disappointing feature, the level of distortion with bass EQ. These phones are marketed as low distortion at high volumes blah blah. Clearly nothing special here.
After a day of intermittent listening whilst working in my office, I've warmed to them. Despite the vice like clamp, they don't hurt. I'm discovering new micro details not noticed before, and the treble is nice and clean. Their relatively high impedance means my LG V50 struggles to really drive them, and the volume knob on my element 2 is much more advanced than all of the other phones I use.

I suppose the clamp force is relatively high when you first have them, but I only noticed it for the first 5 minutes, I think they loosen up quickly - I've got a pretty big head.

Pity about your auditory experience, doesn't align with mine at all, and certainly not the bass distortion after EQ, in fact it's subjectively the cleanest bass I've heard on about the same level as my planar HE4XX after EQ. Also my headphone was measured by Oratory and bass distortion and indeed distortion across the whole frequency range was incredibly low, lower than many planar based headphones in the bass even:

 

[Bernard23]

I suppose the clamp force is relatively high when you first have them, but I only noticed it for the first 5 minutes, I think they loosen up quickly - I've got a pretty big head.

Pity about your auditory experience, doesn't align with mine at all, and certainly not the bass distortion after EQ, in fact it's subjectively the cleanest bass I've heard on about the same level as my planar HE4XX after EQ. Also my headphone was measured by Oratory and bass distortion and indeed distortion across the whole frequency range was incredibly low, lower than many planar based headphones in the bass even:
View attachment 182677

I'm going off the measurements that Amir made. I haven't played with any EQ yet, still running in and listening clean. I did notice more "chuffing" at <25Hz when I was using the test tome compared to both the yamahas and my 325e. The Yamaha make no unwanted mechanical noises, they're clean down to the threshold of hearing.

High frequency distortion is extremely low but bass distortion rapidly rises with level:

 

[Count Arthur]

I'm going off the measurements that Amir made. I haven't played with any EQ yet, still running in and listening clean. I did notice more "chuffing" at <25Hz when I was using the test tome compared to both the yamahas and my 325e. The Yamaha make no unwanted mechanical noises, they're clean down to the threshold of hearing.

High frequency distortion is extremely low but bass distortion rapidly rises with level:

Regarding the rising distortion in the bass, have a look at my earlier post and a few following: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s-review-headphone.29603/page-10#post-1043751

Also try out the tone generator, which will allow you to hear what 20 and 30Hz actually sounds like with headphones: https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/

In addition, the lowest setting, 94dBSL, in the graph above is, is probably higher than I would listen to music; it's pretty loud.

In summary, there doesn't seem to be a lot of content in most music below ~40Hz, so a big boost at ~ 20Hz, isn't likely to do much sonically, but may make the drivers work harder.

In a full range speaker system, or a system with a subwoofer, that low sub ~40Hz content, possibly has more effect on the visceral sensation, where you feel the thump in your chest, than than actual the sound.

Bear in mind this is all ponderings and speculation on my part; I am by no means an authority on the topic or an expert.

 

[solderdude]

94dB peak SPL at 30Hz is not pretty loud though. At 400Hz to 10kHz it is.
I don't listen loud in general but sometimes like to crank it up shortly with songs I really like.
Also I don't feel the need to boost the (sub)lows with the HD560S. Bass is exactly how I want it.
I don't think bass is distorted even at higher levels.
No one listens to 30Hz continuous sine waves unless one is testing.
With music most bass distortion at normal to loud listening levels is not audible.

 

[Bernard23]

Also try out the tone generator, which will allow you to hear what 20 and 30Hz actually sounds like with headphones: https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/

Yes, that's the one I use.

94dB peak SPL at 30Hz is not pretty loud though. At 400Hz to 10kHz it is.

I don't think bass is distorted even at higher levels.

With music most bass distortion at normal to loud listening levels is not audible.

Agree, 94dB at LF is not loud. 300dB at 20Hz is barely audibly loud but you'd feel it alright - here are the ISO equal loudness curves. It's conceivable that adding 5-10dB of sub 50Hz boost can invoke a considerable measurable increase in distortion, but as you say, whether that is reliably audible is another matter of course.