Sennheiser HD 490 Pro Headphone Review

[Vamp898]

Given your hypothetical situation, my understanding is that people would hear the speakers all the same in terms of liking them fairly similarly

Liking? The Neumann KH 120 II are flat reference studio monitors. They sound like the original recording sounds. There is nothing to like or not like, they just sound like the soundwave you put into them.

If you like them, you like the soundwave that was put into them and hence the original recording.

So this is not a matter of taste but a matter ob objective difference.

If you would ask these 10 people to listen to the Speaker and then, afterwards, listen to the headphone, they would hear the same differences.

For example if Person 1 thinks the violin is shrill and hurts and person 2 thinks the violin is muffled with the speaker.

Person 1 would think the violin is shrill and person 2 would think the violin is muffled with the headphone.

Given they reproduce the sound in the same way, people who listen back to these devices would hear the same differences.

 

[Robbo99999]

Liking? The Neumann KH 120 II are flat reference studio monitors. They sound like the original recording sounds. There is nothing to like or not like, they just sound like the soundwave you put into them.

If you like them, you like the soundwave that was put into them and hence the original recording.

So this is not a matter of taste but a matter ob objective difference.

If you would ask these 10 people to listen to the Speaker and then, afterwards, listen to the headphone, they would hear the same differences.

For example if Person 1 thinks the violin is shrill and hurts and person 2 thinks the violin is muffled with the speaker.

Person 1 would think the violin is shrill and person 2 would think the violin is muffled with the headphone.

Given they reproduce the sound in the same way, people who listen back to these devices would hear the same differences.

Come on, "liking" is part of the Harman Research and also the conclusion that Anechoic Flat Speakers have the highest level of preference, which is also the standard by which speakers are measured here on ASR. If you want to throw all that out & say that it has no value, then that's on you, but you'd be mistaken & you can go back to listening to speakers with any random frequency response that you like. Besides, you missed the points I was making in regards to comparing speakers to headphones and instead you only quoted a snippet of my post. I don't think you're particularly interested in sincere discussion.

EDIT: nope, people hear headphones different to speakers, your violin analogy is not correct, see my previous post.....you're just restating what you already stated before but in different words. You've ignored the entire content of my previous post.

 

[Vamp898]

These are some inaccurate statements & assumptions too. Your idea that speakers cannot compete with headphones in terms of sound quality is false or very open to debate, and is certainly not a statement that you can make.

You have any scientific explanation why, or is it just your opinion?

For a start we've already established that headphones are a fairly inaccurate simulation of speakers, whereby speakers are the main benchmark around which music is made in terms of "as artist intended", so speakers win on that front.

No. The speakers used by Sennheiser to tune the HD 490 Pro are used to know what sounds flat because you can measure them with lasers in an controlled way.

With an Headphone, it is much more complicated to know what sounds flat because the distance plays a big role when determining an flat sound. The speakers are used as reference for tuning, not as reference for sound quality. So Headphones are no simulation of speakers (and you don't want that too).

With Speakers, you have (at the same volume, comparing reference studio monitors) higher distortion and phase issues you do not have with headphones.

With headphones, you hear only the left channel from the left side and only the right channel from the right side. With speakers, the channels, no matter how perfectly treated your room is, mix and cause phase issues and distortion. Even if you're listening to only one speaker, they distort earlier.

So this is not a matter of taste or opinion, they have objectively lower fidelity. And that is exactly the reason why more and more (even large and famous) sound studios move from speakers to headphones and especially In-Ear. The Sennheiser HD 490 Pro is not an answer to Studio Monitor Speakers, it is an answer to Studio Monitor In-Ear.

Companies like Westone, FitEar and Vision Ear are pushing aggressively into the studio market by providing higher fidelity with an perfectly controlled room everywhere you are.

The Westone Mach Series was created for exactly this reason, or the FitEar TG 334/335 Studio Reference. They provide up to -38db Isolation (you basically have you anechoing chamber wherever you are), you have perfect stereo channel separation and inaudible distortion without phase issues.

Come on, "liking" is part of the Harman Research

You don't say? An project that was founded to find the subjective performance that most people like is about liking? Crazy. But what has this to do with Reference Studio Monitors? The Harman project is all about subjective performance.

and also the conclusion that Anechoic Flat Speakers have the highest level of preference, which is also the standard by which speakers are measured here on ASR. If you want to throw all that out & say that it has no value, then that's on you, but you'd be mistaken & you can go back to listening to speakers with any random frequency response that you like.

No! Because we are talking about Studio Reference Monitors. They have to be objectively correct, no matter if people like that or not.

Neumann doesn't care if anyone likes how their speakers sound, they are made for people who make music with them and _have_ to know how it sounds dead flat neutral.

They are work tools who have to do their job, Nobody cares if anybody likes their sound, they are not consumer products.

I think you might have missed the point that we are talking about reference studio gear and not home stereo systems.

 

[Robbo99999]

You have any scientific explanation why, or is it just your opinion?

No. The speakers used by Sennheiser to tune the HD 490 Pro are used to know what sounds flat because you can measure them with lasers in an controlled way.

With an Headphone, it is much more complicated to know what sounds flat because the distance plays a big role when determining an flat sound. The speakers are used as reference for tuning, not as reference for sound quality. So Headphones are no simulation of speakers (and you don't want that too).

With Speakers, you have (at the same volume, comparing reference studio monitors) higher distortion and phase issues you do not have with headphones.

With headphones, you hear only the left channel from the left side and only the right channel from the right side. With speakers, the channels, no matter how perfectly treated your room is, mix and cause phase issues and distortion. Even if you're listening to only one speaker, they distort earlier.

So this is not a matter of taste or opinion, they have objectively lower fidelity. And that is exactly the reason why more and more (even large and famous) sound studios move from speakers to headphones and especially In-Ear. The Sennheiser HD 490 Pro is not an answer to Studio Monitor Speakers, it is an answer to Studio Monitor In-Ear.

Companies like Westone, FitEar and Vision Ear are pushing aggressively into the studio market by providing higher fidelity with an perfectly controlled room everywhere you are.

The Westone Mach Series was created for exactly this reason, or the FitEar TG 334/335 Studio Reference. They provide up to -38db Isolation (you basically have you anechoing chamber wherever you are), you have perfect stereo channel separation and inaudible distortion without phase issues.


You don't say? An project that was founded to find the subjective performance that most people like is about liking? Crazy. But what has this to do with Reference Studio Monitors? The Harman project is all about subjective performance.

No! Because we are talking about Studio Reference Monitors. They have to be objectively correct, no matter if people like that or not.

Neumann doesn't care if anyone likes how their speakers sound, they are made for people who make music with them and _have_ to know how it sounds dead flat neutral.

They are work tools who have to do their job, Nobody cares if anybody likes their sound, they are not consumer products.

I think you might have missed the point that we are talking about reference studio gear and not home stereo systems.

I really hope you don't work in the audio industry as a professional!

"Studio Reference Monitors" are supposed to be Anechoic Flat, this is the target criterion that is used here on ASR to evaluate speakers. Harman Research found that people like Anechoic Flat Speakers probably because it approximated most accurately what was used in the studio in terms of an average so was probably closest to "what artist intended". Music is predominantly made in the industry to perform best on Anechoic Flat Speakers and not any given headphone model of your choice for the following reasons:

• any given headphone can sound significantly different to different people due to HRTF & headphone coupling differences
• there can be some crazy wild frequency responses in stock headphones so it's unwise to base creation of a track on using a random headphone.

Anechoic Flat Speakers are the reference for the audio industry & also the informed audiophile. You don't seem to understand the limitations of headphones & you also don't seem to understand speakers either. We hopes you don't work in the audio industry!

EDIT: so what's your main point re putting all this schlock in this thread? What's your main point re HD490 Pro? That it's the perfect tool beyond anything else for music creators? Seriously though, what's your main point of all this in relation to HD490 Pro?

 

[BZ22]

Damn... I read through the entire thread. So, do the HD 490 Pro actually have sub-bass or not?

 

[Somafunk]

Damn... I read through the entire thread. So, do the HD 490 Pro actually have sub-bass or not?

It’s not a visceral thump but still very satisfying with my choice of techno/electronic music, and it takes to eq very well if you want even more.

 

[dfuller]

Damn... I read through the entire thread. So, do the HD 490 Pro actually have sub-bass or not?

I didn't find it lacking, just not bass forward. Harman is a preference curve, it matches a "good" speaker in-room but with a substantial preference-based bass boost.

 

[Vamp898]

I really hope you don't work in the audio industry as a professional!

I really hope you don't do any work that involves communication with other people. And i can't find words to express my lack of respect for people who use the smiley wrong.

As you shout into the forest, and now maybe back to topic? This is not a wrestling match.

"Studio Reference Monitors" are supposed to be Anechoic Flat, this is the target criterion that is used here on ASR to evaluate speakers.

Yes.... as i said. I don't really get why you feel the urge to explain something nobody questioned and that was already explained in other posts. But why not, sure. Do as you please.

Harman Research found that people like Anechoic Flat Speakers probably because it approximated most accurately what was used in the studio in terms of an average so was probably closest to "what artist intended".

You are mixing reasearch results with your personal opinion on what they tell. You should not do that. Either quote the research as it is or post your opinion on how things work. But don't mix and mangle them together. It gives the impression that your opinion was a result or part of that research.

Music is predominantly made in the industry to perform best on Anechoic Flat Speakers

That is, at best, an opinion.

But wow, crazy. Then all those Sound Engineers must be lying. I wonder what their intention is? Do they hate speakers and don't want people to get them?

That might be a big conspiracy you are discovering here.

Anechoic Flat Speakers are the reference for the audio industry

Funny. This sounds like "The Audio Industry" is one thing.

What exactly are we talking here? How am i supposed to reply to this? Are we talking about Companies who make DAC? I assume not, so is it my job to find out what you're talking about? It must be a joy to work with you.

Companies that make Studio Reference Headphones? Absolutely, for those people, these speakers are the reference. As i said myself earlier so and hence do not understand why you are re-explaining already established concepts. But again, why not make sure we're on the same page. Can help keep confusion down.

Are we talking about sound studios? They use speakers as reference but not as their main reference, like their go to tool. At least not all of them.

At least the majority of sound studios in Japan (and the fast growing number all over the world, probably, at least in germany), including some famous and award winning sound studios use Studio Reference IEM and Headphones as their main reference. They mix and master with there first and then use the speakers (and lots of other stuff including car audio systems. Yeah must sound scary to you, afraid yet?) to check and verify their mix and master. But what do they know about Music. Just because they are making it? pfft amateurs.

You should really go and tell those peoples how to do their Job. Especially in Japan and with your attitude, i am sure that they greet you with open arms, explaining them that they all do their daily job wrong. Especially those sound studios under direct contract with Sony that are actively urged to use the MDR-MV1 for mixing and mastering. I am sure, those are the first listening to you and throwing their workflow out of the window.

& also the informed audiophile.

Information != Knowledge.

You don't seem to understand the limitations of headphones & you also don't seem to understand speakers either.

I am not a speaker guy, i am giving you that. I am using them as one of many references, nothing more, nothing less. As a private person, i do enjoy that you can listen to music when more than one person is there who wants to listen to music.

But i do know a lot of limitations of them because i am using them in a real world scenario and they are a pain to use. Have one person standing in the room in the wrong position and there goes your calibration down the drain.

That might come as a surprise to you, but mixing/mastering engineer do not work alone in dark anechoic chambers. I am pretty sure that would even be legal in most countries due to several lows how your workplace must be designed, but that is a different topic.

Studios try to treat their rooms as good as they can, in the limitation given by their functionality, but i am sure that most audiophiles have better treated rooms than a lot of very famous studios. One of the many reasons why more and more studios (with geographic differences as it seems) are switching to IEM and Headphones as their primary tool. It gets the job done better done as speakers. And thats what you get paid for, getting your job done.

And at least in Japan, Music is mixed and mastered with IEM/Headphones _for_ IEM/Headphones in the first place because, most japanese do not own speakers anyway. The speaker market in Japan is outside of very rich people non existing. For Japanese, something like the Yamaha HS-8 are already gigantic. Floor Speakers are something you can not buy in eletronic stores because... who would buy that? Where would people place them?

We hopes you don't work in the audio industry!

Who is we? And i am sorry to disappoint you, i do.

But i am 99% sure that you are not working as either an musician nor an mixing/mastering engineer. Not just because it would be almost impossible for someone with such an attitude to work in an creative industry and especially a team, but first an foremost as you have unrealistic imaginations (i am sure they are nothing more than this) on how sound studios in the real world work. I am pretty sure you would be disappointed seeing the real world and daily work of sound studios.

EDIT: so what's your main point re putting all this schlock in this thread? What's your main point re HD490 Pro? That it's the perfect tool beyond anything else for music creators? Seriously though, what's your main point of all this in relation to HD490 Pro?

I am not questioning that you did not get my point by your post, trust me. But unlike you, i don't feel like re-explaining whats written in text.

 

[sushi2020]

As someone who lives in Japan, I find Vamp898's story very interesting!
However, I think this topic is getting out of line with the purpose of this review thread.
Maybe it would be better to start a new thread.

 

[Vamp898]

To get back on Thread, for those living in parts of the World where Thomann is shipping, you can grab the 4.4mm balanced cable as of today.

Sennheiser HD-490 PRO Balanced Cable

Sennheiser HD-490 PRO Balanced Cable; symmetrisches Kabel für HD-490 Pro mit 4,4mm Pentaconn Anschluß; Länge: 1,8m

www.thomann.de

 

[icy20]

To get back on Thread, for those living in parts of the World where Thomann is shipping, you can grab the 4.4mm balanced cable as of today.

Sennheiser HD-490 PRO Balanced Cable

Sennheiser HD-490 PRO Balanced Cable; symmetrisches Kabel für HD-490 Pro mit 4,4mm Pentaconn Anschluß; Länge: 1,8m

www.thomann.de

I thought of doing that but dl200 does not have a true balanced headphone out i think. The power delivery is the same on 4.4 and 6.3 jacks...

 

[Robbo99999]

I really hope you don't do any work that involves communication with other people. And i can't find words to express my lack of respect for people who use the smiley wrong.

As you shout into the forest, and now maybe back to topic? This is not a wrestling match.

Yes.... as i said. I don't really get why you feel the urge to explain something nobody questioned and that was already explained in other posts. But why not, sure. Do as you please.

You are mixing reasearch results with your personal opinion on what they tell. You should not do that. Either quote the research as it is or post your opinion on how things work. But don't mix and mangle them together. It gives the impression that your opinion was a result or part of that research.

That is, at best, an opinion.

But wow, crazy. Then all those Sound Engineers must be lying. I wonder what their intention is? Do they hate speakers and don't want people to get them?

That might be a big conspiracy you are discovering here.

Funny. This sounds like "The Audio Industry" is one thing.

What exactly are we talking here? How am i supposed to reply to this? Are we talking about Companies who make DAC? I assume not, so is it my job to find out what you're talking about? It must be a joy to work with you.

Companies that make Studio Reference Headphones? Absolutely, for those people, these speakers are the reference. As i said myself earlier so and hence do not understand why you are re-explaining already established concepts. But again, why not make sure we're on the same page. Can help keep confusion down.

Are we talking about sound studios? They use speakers as reference but not as their main reference, like their go to tool. At least not all of them.

At least the majority of sound studios in Japan (and the fast growing number all over the world, probably, at least in germany), including some famous and award winning sound studios use Studio Reference IEM and Headphones as their main reference. They mix and master with there first and then use the speakers (and lots of other stuff including car audio systems. Yeah must sound scary to you, afraid yet?) to check and verify their mix and master. But what do they know about Music. Just because they are making it? pfft amateurs.

You should really go and tell those peoples how to do their Job. Especially in Japan and with your attitude, i am sure that they greet you with open arms, explaining them that they all do their daily job wrong. Especially those sound studios under direct contract with Sony that are actively urged to use the MDR-MV1 for mixing and mastering. I am sure, those are the first listening to you and throwing their workflow out of the window.

Information != Knowledge.

I am not a speaker guy, i am giving you that. I am using them as one of many references, nothing more, nothing less. As a private person, i do enjoy that you can listen to music when more than one person is there who wants to listen to music.

But i do know a lot of limitations of them because i am using them in a real world scenario and they are a pain to use. Have one person standing in the room in the wrong position and there goes your calibration down the drain.

That might come as a surprise to you, but mixing/mastering engineer do not work alone in dark anechoic chambers. I am pretty sure that would even be legal in most countries due to several lows how your workplace must be designed, but that is a different topic.

Studios try to treat their rooms as good as they can, in the limitation given by their functionality, but i am sure that most audiophiles have better treated rooms than a lot of very famous studios. One of the many reasons why more and more studios (with geographic differences as it seems) are switching to IEM and Headphones as their primary tool. It gets the job done better done as speakers. And thats what you get paid for, getting your job done.

And at least in Japan, Music is mixed and mastered with IEM/Headphones _for_ IEM/Headphones in the first place because, most japanese do not own speakers anyway. The speaker market in Japan is outside of very rich people non existing. For Japanese, something like the Yamaha HS-8 are already gigantic. Floor Speakers are something you can not buy in eletronic stores because... who would buy that? Where would people place them?

Who is we? And i am sorry to disappoint you, i do.

But i am 99% sure that you are not working as either an musician nor an mixing/mastering engineer. Not just because it would be almost impossible for someone with such an attitude to work in an creative industry and especially a team, but first an foremost as you have unrealistic imaginations (i am sure they are nothing more than this) on how sound studios in the real world work. I am pretty sure you would be disappointed seeing the real world and daily work of sound studios.

I am not questioning that you did not get my point by your post, trust me. But unlike you, i don't feel like re-explaining whats written in text.

I'm sorry, it's not worth engaging in conversation with you, it's dysfunctional, and you seemingly have a lot to learn, but either way such a conversation doesn't really belong here in the HD490 Pro thread, but instead one of those two "dumping ground" threads. Sorry, I'm not gonna prolong a dysfunctional & to-this-thread irrelevant conversation (& I probably won't participate even if it's moved to the dumping ground thread, probably better to let it die in here already).

 

[Somafunk]

To get back on Thread, for those living in parts of the World where Thomann is shipping, you can grab the 4.4mm balanced cable as of today.

Sennheiser HD-490 PRO Balanced Cable

Sennheiser HD-490 PRO Balanced Cable; symmetrisches Kabel für HD-490 Pro mit 4,4mm Pentaconn Anschluß; Länge: 1,8m

www.thomann.de

I was hoping it would be shorter, and if its the same build/rubber of the original then I'll pass as its prone to kinks/loops, I'll order an aftermarket cable from someone else who can build me a 1m length.

 

[Vamp898]

I was hoping it would be shorter, and if its the same build/rubber of the original then I'll pass as its prone to kinks/loops, I'll order an aftermarket cable from someone else who can build me a 1m length.

Beside being a balanced cable, its identical to the 3.5mm cable, yes.

 

[BZ22]

The HD 490 Pro arrived today, and here is my first impression.
I have the Edition XS and HD 600 for comparison here.

The build quality seems cheaper compared to the HD 600 but still decent.
First thing I don't like: my ears touch the inner foam pads, and no, I don't have large ears.
The HD 490 Pro are very light and smaller than I expected.
Soundwise they strongly reminded me of the HD 650 but with more low end.
The treble is excellent here and cleaner than on the HD 600/650.
The main problem for me here is the low-mid.
Dynamic drivers simply have issues with the clarity of the low-mids when there is a bass extension.
The clarity in the mids and the natural soundstage of the HD 600 are still unbeatable.
They do provide low bass information starting from 10Hz when listening to isolated bass.
The sub-bass is lacking in detail to me.
Even though I miss some details in the sub-bass, I'm confident that you can get a well balanced mix with them.
If you add too much low-end, the HD 490 Pro will make it clearly evident.
Maybe I'm being too critical, but I expected more.
I find them overpriced at 389€.
They still sound much better than any Beyerdynamic Mixing headphones.
I appreciate my Edition XS even more now, although I find their soundstage a bit too horizontal for mixing.
My dream is still a planar HD 600 headphone, and I hope I will find it one day

 

[Robbo99999]

The HD 490 Pro arrived today, and here is my first impression.
I have the Edition XS and HD 600 for comparison here.

The build quality seems cheaper compared to the HD 600 but still decent.
First thing I don't like: my ears touch the inner foam pads, and no, I don't have large ears.
The HD 490 Pro are very light and smaller than I expected.
Soundwise they strongly reminded me of the HD 650 but with more low end.
The treble is excellent here and cleaner than on the HD 600/650.
The main problem for me here is the low-mid.
Dynamic drivers simply have issues with the clarity of the low-mids when there is a bass extension.
The clarity in the mids and the natural soundstage of the HD 600 are still unbeatable.
They do provide low bass information starting from 10Hz when listening to isolated bass.
The sub-bass is lacking in detail to me.
Even though I miss some details in the sub-bass, I'm confident that you can get a well balanced mix with them.
If you add too much low-end, the HD 490 Pro will make it clearly evident.
Maybe I'm being too critical, but I expected more.
I find them overpriced at 389€.
They still sound much better than any Beyerdynamic Mixing headphones.
I appreciate my Edition XS even more now, although I find their soundstage a bit too horizontal for mixing.
My dream is still a planar HD 600 headphone, and I hope I will find it one day

I think you'd benefit by using EQ, sounds like you don't.

 

[BZ22]

I think you'd benefit by using EQ, sounds like you don't.

Sure, EQ can be very helpful in shaping the sound.
Unfortunately, certain traits cannot be fixed through EQ.
You can only reduce or increase what is "already there".

 

[Chagall]

Sure, EQ can be very helpful in shaping the sound.
Unfortunately, certain traits cannot be fixed through EQ.
You can only reduce or increase what is "already there".

Not sure what you meant by that? If tonality is the problem and headphone's distortion is low, EQ can definitely fix it, according to your preference.

Bass won't be A tier, but that goes for majority of Sennheisers, especially HD6xx range when EQed. EQ can't fix soundstage, at least not in a meaningful way like tonality.

If you aren't satisfied with them, try Amir's or Oratory's EQ (producer pads). You have nothing to lose.

 

[BZ22]

Not sure what you meant by that? If tonality is the problem and headphone's distortion is low, EQ can definitely fix it, according to your preference.

Bass won't be A tier, but that goes for majority of Sennheisers, especially HD6xx range when EQed. EQ can't fix soundstage, at least not in a meaningful way like tonality.

If you aren't satisfied with them, try Amir's or Oratory's EQ (producer pads). You have nothing to lose.

What I mean exactly, you have already answered with "Bass won't be A tier" or "EQ can't fix soundstage."
You could also use a Mid/Side EQ or even a Dynamic EQ to control problematic frequencies, but this process will always affect the signal and introduce phase shift.
Processing remains processing, and if you want pure neutrality for complex mixing, this is not always the ideal way

 

[Vamp898]

The HD 490 Pro arrived today, and here is my first impression.
I have the Edition XS and HD 600 for comparison here.

The build quality seems cheaper compared to the HD 600 but still decent.
First thing I don't like: my ears touch the inner foam pads, and no, I don't have large ears.
The HD 490 Pro are very light and smaller than I expected.
Soundwise they strongly reminded me of the HD 650 but with more low end.
The treble is excellent here and cleaner than on the HD 600/650.
The main problem for me here is the low-mid.
Dynamic drivers simply have issues with the clarity of the low-mids when there is a bass extension.
The clarity in the mids and the natural soundstage of the HD 600 are still unbeatable.
They do provide low bass information starting from 10Hz when listening to isolated bass.
The sub-bass is lacking in detail to me.
Even though I miss some details in the sub-bass, I'm confident that you can get a well balanced mix with them.
If you add too much low-end, the HD 490 Pro will make it clearly evident.
Maybe I'm being too critical, but I expected more.
I find them overpriced at 389€.
They still sound much better than any Beyerdynamic Mixing headphones.
I appreciate my Edition XS even more now, although I find their soundstage a bit too horizontal for mixing.
My dream is still a planar HD 600 headphone, and I hope I will find it one day

I tested the Edition XS and I found their treble too piecing and painful for mixing, I couldn't even concentrate on the lower mids^^

I looked at measurements and tried to EQ them to neutral but whatever measurement I took as reference, the result sounded off and wrong, so I gave up on them. Also, at slightly higher volumes, I had issues that the bass started distorting way too fast.

Somehow it was much easier to EQ the LCD-X to make it usable for mixing than the Edition XS but I gave up on the LCD-X too and on Headphones completely for a long time. The MDR-MV1 was the first time I heard something that's usable out of the box.

That is why I appreciate the NDH-30 and HD 490 PRO, you just put them on and you can start. You transport the mix from one set to another and don't get a shock how everything sounds slightly off. There is nothing worse than finishing the mix with with Headphones, listen back with Speaker and IEM and feel like you wasted time and you have to start over again.