Schiit Magnius Balanced Headphone Amp Review

[itayoron]

If you have or do suffer from them, maybe. But you haven't said you do. As others have said, that aside, I am not sure what you would gain by adding a balanced amp. But I really wouldnt look to change the DAC.

EDIT- The Motu doesnt have balanced/ XLR outputs- so forget the benefits of balanced inputs on a new amp. Unless I've missed something

The MOTU outputs are balanced TRS. No, I do not suffer from ground loops...

Final question: I am guessing that if someone claims there are sound-wise benefits to run headphones balanced, it is probably due to placebo effect?

 

[Vasr]

If you have or do suffer from them, maybe. But you haven't said you do. As others have said, that aside, I am not sure what you would gain by adding a balanced amp. But I really wouldnt look to change the DAC.

EDIT- The Motu doesnt have balanced/ XLR outputs- so forget the benefits of balanced inputs on a new amp. Unless I've missed something

Motu does not have balanced headphone out but has balanced line outs - TRS not XLR connectors so you would need a TRS to XLR adapter to connect to a balanced amp with XLR inputs.

On an unrelated note: only the main out 2 line outputs on the Motu are controlled by the physical volume know, the rest of the outputs must be controlled by their software controls if anyone thinks of using this for multi-channel.

 

[Vasr]

The MOTU outputs are balanced TRS. No, I do not suffer from ground loops...

Final question: I am guessing that if someone claims there are sound-wise benefits to run headphones balanced, it is probably due to placebo effect?

Only the line outs, the headphone out is Stereo unbalanced TRS.

As Amir mentioned earlier, balanced headphone outs can provide more voltage and so would drive inefficient headphones better. Will avoid ground loop related noises if they exist.

 

[Jimbob54]

The MOTU outputs are balanced TRS. No, I do not suffer from ground loops...

Final question: I am guessing that if someone claims there are sound-wise benefits to run headphones balanced, it is probably due to placebo effect?

Extra power is the only benefit- particularly useful on DAPs to run less sensitive cans than they can manage single ended. But no magic. It is a noticeable bump in power though. I do have 2 amps that are XLR only though- so I cant knock anyone for trying it ;-)

EDIT- that is of course assuming the performance is the same for balanced and SE outputs on the same amp- if not, like with the Magnius, there is obviously some benefit in balanced- its cleaner!

 

[Helicopter]

Extra power is the only benefit- particularly useful on DAPs to run less sensitive cans than they can manage single ended. But no magic. It is a noticeable bump in power though. I do have 2 amps that are XLR only though- so I cant knock anyone for trying it ;-)

EDIT- that is of course assuming the circuitry is the same for balanced and SE outputs on the same amp- if not, like with the Magnius, there is obviously some benefit in balanced- its cleaner!

If you get a Magnius and XLR cables for the headphones you can go to 120 SINAD, from the 119 of Heresy in SE out. Heresy beats Magnius in SE out, which I why I am keeping it with the Magnius. TRS to XLR-M interconnects are pretty common if you don't want to get a new DAC. If you get a Modius, you can keep the Heresy and plug it to the RCA outs from the Modius at the same time. Then you get Schiit's best digital-to-analog conversion, their best XLR headphone out and their best TRS stereo headphone out. Balanced inputs on the headphone amp could also produce a bigger, but still inaudible improvement by fixing any hidden ground loop problems that you can't hear.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Do people really think they can get 120dB SINAD?
What 50mV SNR is for then....

 

[Asylum Seeker]

To what can we attribute the significantly worse or much less good single-ended performance? I am afraid that many 'audiophiles' will latch on to this specific
piece of equipment as general proof that Balanced is miles ahead of single-ended in terms of performance.

 

[Asylum Seeker]

Makes a case for having two panthers on some reviews (or a bipolar one?).

One for balanced output performance (relevant only if you have balanced input headphones) and one for unbalanced output performance.

You could also use this bipolar panther for all the AVRs that have poor or no 4v pre-out but have good performance at low voltages.

Or maybe a bear, a bi-polar bear, for such cases...

 

[itayoron]

If you get a Magnius and XLR cables for the headphones you can go to 120 SINAD, from the 119 of Heresy in SE out. Heresy beats Magnius in SE out, which I why I am keeping it with the Magnius. TRS to XLR-M interconnects are pretty common if you don't want to get a new DAC. If you get a Modius, you can keep the Heresy and plug it to the RCA outs from the Modius at the same time. Then you get Schiit's best digital-to-analog conversion, their best XLR headphone out and their best TRS stereo headphone out. Balanced inputs on the headphone amp could also produce a bigger, but still inaudible improvement by fixing any hidden ground loop problems that you can't hear.

Even if I get a Modius the question remains regarding the balanced amp: Magnius or THX-789?

 

[Vini darko]

Even if I get a Modius the question remains regarding the balanced amp: Magnius or THX-789?

Flip a coin or somthing.

 

[Jimbob54]

Even if I get a Modius the question remains regarding the balanced amp: Magnius or THX-789?

Yup- coin toss, or get the Magnius as cheaper and (depending on where you are) maybe easier to obtain. I dont think you would be missing anything getting one over other- except the 789 has a "better" single ended performance- but you have the Heresy.

 

[Helicopter]

Yup- coin toss, or get the Magnius as cheaper and (depending on where you are) maybe easier to obtain. I dont think you would be missing anything getting one over other- except the 789 has a "better" single ended performance- but you have the Heresy.

Flip a coin or somthing.

Even if I get a Modius the question remains regarding the balanced amp: Magnius or THX-789?

I got the Magnius over the THX based on aesthetics (especially with my other Schiit gear), and because I am a big fan of Schiit. I like how TM Noble participates here, and how Schiit is meeting the challenge of consumers who demand products with excellent measurements you can't hear.

As long as nothing is broken or incorrectly configured, you shouldn't be able to hear a difference in any of this gear. Cost is also a benefit of the Magnius where I live. However, I would have paid another $100 for the Magnius without hesitation; I even waited for Schiit to release the Magnius over buying something else a couple months earlier because I gathered something like this was next in their lineup.

 

[Helicopter]

Do people really think they can get 120dB SINAD?
What 50mV SNR is for then....

Certainly not with a system. I'm really just referring to the number's on the chart as a performance benchmark when I cite 120. I don't really conceptualize the 120 as a standardized universal measurement; to me it is a numerical indicator of the results Amir got in his test with a methodology I trust and respect. I also understand that more rigorous testing (like 7 tests of 7 units) would probably yield a slightly different ranking for the amps over 118. I don't think there's any data or ranking of comparable quality and accessibility available, so I am happy to use the outstanding benchmark here, imperfect as it is.

EDIT: You can get a product with 120 on the chart, buy the product, plug it into your system, and enjoy it. I an confident I am factually correct in thinking that's what I have done.

You said earlier TRS performance wasn't a design decision. They could have taken a 16 inch chassis, put the two transformers on one side, put a Magnius board in it, put a Heresy board next to the Magnius board, and made a $299 amp with 120 SINAD from the XLRs and 119 from TRS. I could do that with what I learned about electronics through osmosis while pounding rivets in my 20s. I won't, and they probably shouldn't, because you can just buy a Modius, and then plug a $99 Heresy and a $199 Magnius into it like I did. You could even get a black Modius, knowing what we know now.

EDIT: if Schiit puts transformers, a Heresy level board, Magnius level board, and Modius level board in a 16 inch chassis, I'll totally buy that for $500 or so.

To what can we attribute the significantly worse or much less good single-ended performance? I am afraid that many 'audiophiles' will latch on to this specific
piece of equipment as general proof that Balanced is miles ahead of single-ended in terms of performance.

I don't. Amir summarizes the differences aptly in his last post in this thread. I attribute the superiority of Magnius XLR over Heresy TRS to other aspects of design; not to being balanced vs SE. I attribute superiority of Magnius XLR over Magnius TRS to Schiit designing a great amp for XLR, with whatever they learned making Heresy as an advantage, and then being cost conscious when they added TRS capability to the amp designed for XLR performance.

I do suspect this isn't the only XLR headphone amp with TRS output that is designed for XLR performance with TRS added on, and thus performing better, not just louder, with the XLR in and XLR out versus RCA/TRS. I'd love to see if measuring my Loxjie P20 provides another example. I would bet superior XLR performance is a lot more common and likely than superior TRS performance because Schiit isn't the only manufacturer facing the exact same pressures.

And then there's still the computer ground loop thing with the inputs... and If you're using XLR inputs to solve this, XLR outputs match better with the system aesthetically.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Certainly not with a system. I'm really just referring to the number's on the chart as a performance benchmark when I cite 120. I don't really conceptualize the 120 as a standardized universal measurement; to me it is a numerical indicator of the results Amir got in his test with a methodology I trust and respect. I also understand that more rigorous testing (like 7 tests of 7 units) would probably yield a slightly different ranking for the amps over 118. I don't think there's any data or ranking of comparable quality and accessibility available, so I am happy to use the outstanding benchmark here, imperfect as it is.

EDIT: You can get a product with 120 on the chart, buy the product, plug it into your system, and enjoy it. I an confident I am factually correct in thinking that's what I have done.

You said earlier TRS performance wasn't a design decision. They could have taken a 16 inch chassis, put the two transformers on one side, put a Magnius board in it, put a Heresy board next to the Magnius board, and made a $299 amp with 120 SINAD from the XLRs and 119 from TRS. I could do that with what I learned about electronics through osmosis while pounding rivets in my 20s. I won't, and they probably shouldn't, because you can just buy a Modius, and then plug a $99 Heresy and a $199 Magnius into it like I did. You could even get a black Modius, knowing what we know now.

EDIT: if Schiit puts transformers, a Heresy level board, Magnius level board, and Modius level board in a 16 inch chassis, I'll totally buy that for $500 or so.




I don't. Amir summarizes the differences aptly in his last post in this thread. I attribute the superiority of Magnius XLR over Heresy TRS to other aspects of design; not to being balanced vs SE. I attribute superiority of Magnius XLR over Magnius TRS to Schiit designing a great amp for XLR, with whatever they learned making Heresy as an advantage, and then being cost conscious when they added TRS capability to the amp designed for XLR performance.

I do suspect this isn't the only XLR headphone amp with TRS output that is designed for XLR performance with TRS added on, and thus performing better, not just louder, with the XLR in and XLR out versus RCA/TRS. I'd love to see if measuring my Loxjie P20 provides another example. I would bet superior XLR performance is a lot more common and likely than superior TRS performance because Schiit isn't the only manufacturer facing the exact same pressures.

And then there's still the computer ground loop thing with the inputs... and If you're using XLR inputs to solve this, XLR outputs match better with the system aesthetically.

Read this chart. This is way more important in real world.

 

[Veri]

View attachment 79835
Read this chart. This is way more important in real world.

Magnius is still "only" 8% worse than the very top performer of the chart though. So still very good (when using the balanced output... )

 

[JohnYang1997]

Magnius is still "only" 8% worse than the very top performer of the chart though. So still very good (when using the balanced output... )

It's good. And won't cause issue for most use cases except for extremely sensitive iems over 130dB/V. (there are even 140db/V ones)
The top performance is limited by AP. L30/A90 already achieved 104/105dB. Likewise Adi2dac also achieved about 100dB.

 

[Vini darko]

View attachment 79835
Read this chart. This is way more important in real world.

Look at you all top of pops @JohnYang1997.

 

[Helicopter]

Read this chart. This is way more important in real world.

I like the Best Case Scenario chart better. I can see why you like the 50 mV chart better.

Seriously, I should have referenced this one too in replying to your post about the two; and I agree this chart is useful. It demonstrates your company's outstanding objective performance. It shows why some consumers will want to chose and enjoy your products.

I can still use the Best Case Scenario as a criterion to make a reasonably informed purchase decision, without having any fantastic ideas about getting 120 SINAD in actual use in my system. Personally, If I am going to draw a line on the 50 mV chart for excellent objective performance criterion that satisfies my demands for my transparent headphone system, I'll put it between 83 and 84, admitting A30 and A90 are topping the 50mV performance chart.

Preemptively, I'll just say 50mV performance is also a benchmark number for me, and I don't consider it to be an end-all scientific objective ranking of performance. I'll entertain your argument that it is better than Best Case though.

 

[Helicopter]

It's good. And won't cause issue for most use cases except for extremely sensitive iems over 130dB/V. (there are even 140db/V ones)
The top performance is limited by AP. L30/A90 already achieved 104/105dB. Likewise Adi2dac also achieved about 100dB.

If I ever make a habit to lay on the couch at night after the kids are in bed an listen to IEMs, I'll certainly consider something from your company with the three output levels. You obviously considered and invested in IEM performance with your design implementation. I only use IEMs for teleconferencing and plugging into my phone or tablet right now, but this will be an important criterion for some consumers.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I like the Best Case Scenario chart better. I can see why you like the 50 mV chart better.

Seriously, I should have referenced this one too in replying to your post about the two; and I agree this chart is useful. It demonstrates your company's outstanding objective performance. It shows why some consumers will want to chose and enjoy your products.

I can still use the Best Case Scenario as a criterion to make a reasonably informed purchase decision, without having any fantastic ideas about getting 120 SINAD in actual use in my system. Personally, If I am going to draw a line on the 50 mV chart for excellent objective performance criterion that satisfies my demands for my transparent headphone system, I'll put it between 83 and 84, admitting A30 and A90 are topping the 50mV performance chart.

Preemptively, I'll just say 50mV performance is also a benchmark number for me, and I don't consider it to be an end-all scientific objective ranking of performance. I'll entertain your argument that it is better than Best Case though.

I see dashboard as competition as L30 is also the top of SINAD. I also don't really like the 'manufacture' badge on top of me. I was just trying to make a point. But it's impossible not to mention a90/l30. 50mV and multitone(preferably with load) are the two measurements (channel balance too if not for pure performance) I actually care if I were to choose a product. I'm not saying schiit or other brand was bad. But as you can see from 50mV snr chart, the Atom was much better still. The heresy is also better than magnius. If you look this way. Immediately the view completely changed. Magnius's strength is 199USD powerful BAL amp with tons of power(probably the cheapest amp to power HE6 and K1000 "properly"). But for normal use I don't think it's better than Heresy and Atom. The channel balance is not even that good here regardless having more expensive pot.