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Samsung Entering the High End Audio Business

Chuck Gerlach

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I am a subscriber to some daily thoughts that Paul McGowan (PS Audio) posts and this one caught my attention. If you read his responses on this move by Samsung, it screams "elitist". @amirm: given your connection to Harmon and their measuring approach, I thought you might be interested. Read this thread and see how he responds to the various comments.

http://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/high-end-audio/#comment-45798
 
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Purité Audio

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amirm

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Indeed I do have a connection to this story. A couple of years ago I was surprised to see one of my colleagues and Harman, Allan Devantier going to Samsung. I was surprised, wondering why. Then I read this story: http://www.cnet.com/news/how-samsung-plans-to-be-the-next-bowers-and-wilkins/

In a nutshell, they hired Allan to create a new audio research lab. Allan has been busy, hiring a good sized team and of course creating some of the same methods at Harman, i.e. double blind testing methodology. I expect to see substantially improved products to come out of Samsung as a result of this. Now whether they make a mark in the high-end, I don't know. Right now their focus is on improving their mass market products (TVs, phones, etc.). High-end doesn't make much money and lacks volume. If someone champions it inside Samsung, then it could happen much like it was done with Pioneer and Andrew Jones.
 

Purité Audio

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Samsung are a powerhouse of a company I hope they aim higher than Bowers & Wilkins!
Keith.
 

Thomas savage

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Indeed I do have a connection to this story. A couple of years ago I was surprised to see one of my colleagues and Harman, Allan Devantier going to Samsung. I was surprised, wondering why. Then I read this story: http://www.cnet.com/news/how-samsung-plans-to-be-the-next-bowers-and-wilkins/

In a nutshell, they hired Allan to create a new audio research lab. Allan has been busy, hiring a good sized team and of course creating some of the same methods at Harman, i.e. double blind testing methodology. I expect to see substantially improved products to come out of Samsung as a result of this. Now whether they make a mark in the high-end, I don't know. Right now their focus is on improving their mass market products (TVs, phones, etc.). High-end doesn't make much money and lacks volume. If someone champions it inside Samsung, then it could happen much like it was done with Pioneer and Andrew Jones.
If they look at the loss they will make on the 'high end' products as a investment in brand image it might prove cost effective.
 

Purité Audio

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It needs a huge investment to create the 'state of the art' ,how much I wonder did Bang & Olufsen invest in developing the Beolab 90, as A said if they have the will they could make something really spectacular.
Keith.
 

Thomas savage

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It needs a huge investment to create the 'state of the art' ,how much I wonder did Bang & Olufsen invest in developing the Beolab 90, as A said if they have the will they could make something really spectacular.
Keith.
I know which of those companies can more easily afford such a project;)
 
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Chuck Gerlach

Chuck Gerlach

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My hope is that they move way out of the box (literally). We don't need more speakers, more amplifiers, more ????. If their objective is more profit, then they need to come up with some unique products that attracts new customers. Two channel is (for all practical purposes) dead. Home theater with speakers plastered all over the room is a very small market. Multi-channel headphones? Virtual speakers? Something we don't have today (that also costs less than a small home!!).
 

amirm

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Back to Paul, these are sure amazing statements to make:

"I know how these research guys listen – at least the ones I am familiar with. Double blind, behind curtains, checked with their meters. The results are typically dreadful. Not always, but typically.

Call me a snob, and that’s ok. If they actually did manage to create something of value to the high-end, that would be great and I would support it and them. To the extent they sully the term high-end, I am sad. It causes confusion and sours great numbers of people who might someday be customers of the real high-end."


I would not remotely call him a snob. I would call him lacking any knowledge in proper design of audio systems. To dismiss both controlled listening tests and measurements is way "out there."

I trust he says these things because neither of the above support the marketing statements of the products he spearheads.
 

Fitzcaraldo215

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Love my Samsung refrigerator! And, my bedroom LCD TV and smartphone, too!

Obviously there is a snobbish, hidden, anti-Asian prejudice in McGowan's sentiments, as well as anti-big-corp. But, big corps can create whole new and significant technology if they want to and if they have the stomach for it. There would likely be no digital audio today without Sony and Philips. Some things take really big resources, not just smart new ideas.

I honestly do not see Samsung being that innovative based on their track record in other categories, but ever improving quality seems to be a major goal of theirs. And, it remains to be seen whether this just means they are going to step beyond TV sound bars into mid-fi AVRs and separate speakers for sale at Best Buy. Or, if it means they are going to swing for the fences to try to something really new, esoteric, exciting and different. Or, maybe they just want to be like Hyundai, which started as junk, but led to constantly improving their quality to now, where they can deliver a reasonably respectable chunk of what the premium brands, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, etc., deliver but at a much lower price. (I still prefer a Big 3 German car in terms of performance, especially handling/road worthiness, though, myself, after having also owned Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, etc.)

But, a lot of the reaction is about the hurt feelings of our poor, dear, maligned friends in the "high end" manufacturer fraternity and how threatened they feel. But, if this makes them step up their game, which it might or not under the best of circumstances for awhile, I am all for it.
 

Ron Party

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Did he really call Revel and JBL speakers dreadful, at least implicitly if not explicitly? Whoa!
 

RayDunzl

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fas42

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Did he really call Revel and JBL speakers dreadful, at least implicitly if not explicitly? Whoa!
In part I understand what he's getting at - I have yet to hear a JBL speaker in operation deliver sound I could live with; of course this is a "fault" of the system tune at the time, but it demonstrates that such a speaker in a non-optimised setup can't "compensate" for failings elsewhere - what one hears is a type of refined PA quality, which would great for live rock recordings, etc - but won't work for music styles at a great distances from such.
 

dallasjustice

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In part I understand what he's getting at - I have yet to hear a JBL speaker in operation deliver sound I could live with; of course this is a "fault" of the system tune at the time, but it demonstrates that such a speaker in a non-optimised setup can't "compensate" for failings elsewhere - what one hears is a type of refined PA quality, which would great for live rock recordings, etc - but won't work for music styles at a great distances from such.
Come over to my house. ;)
 

dallasjustice

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image.png
This is where I stopped reading:
"We’ve never made a product that didn’t measure well and we always start with that process."
Is this what BS audio calls measuring "well?"
 

fas42

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No need just make a video and post it.
Keith
Which is not such a silly idea ... if the system is competent then we shouldn't be able to hear anything wrong with what comes across - which is not the same thing as, how good is the the sound?
 

Cosmik

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The thing is that while the listening tests are behind curtains etc., the end users will see the Samsung logo. As a customer, I don't think it is possible to shake off the prior knowledge that this is a huge company that makes fridges and TVs, so no matter how brilliant the products are, they will never 'sound' good. There must always lurk the suspicion that the product has been tuned to suit the tastes of people who don't share the discerning customer's values. They might as well try launching Samsung coffee, or Samsung perfume.

Having said that, I would much rather own a Samsung product than a PS Audio product! I have read this chap's writings before, and I am never, shall we say, 'convinced'.
 
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