Salesman Talk

[DanielT]

But don't scold the sellers too much. They may have been scolded by the manager for not to tough, hard selling on the potential buyers. Like in this video:

.....maybe the priority in their case should be on something other than some Dominators.

 

[Cadguy]

Where I live its impossible to evaluate speakers at a dealer because they don't care or don't know how to set up a demo room. At one dealer I tried to listen to the KEF Blade 2 Metas. The room was a 15' square cube with cinderblock walls covered with drapes. On their first demo piece the presentation was completely overwhelmed by booming bass to the point where I could barely hear the vocals. After a while I could just make out that it was Holly Cole's Train song. When I remarked that the bass completely out of control the salesman just said: "these speakers have lots of bass".
At another dealer where the owner/salesman has been in business over 40 year I tried to audition the Magico A3s. After the first song I told him it sounded like mono and he replied: "your speakers must have some technology that expands the soundstage". A week later he emails to tell me that his dac was malfunctioning and sending a mono signal.
Another dealer/salesman with decades of experience, the Paradigm Founders 120H also completely overloaded the room with booming bass.
At a big box store they had the KEF R11 hooked up to an AVR and I asked them to set it to 2.0 stereo. During the demo I could hear that the in- ceiling speakers where also playing. The salesman told me I was just "hearing static".

 

[DanielT]

Where I live its impossible to evaluate speakers at a dealer because they don't care or don't know how to set up a demo room. At one dealer I tried to listen to the KEF Blade 2 Metas. The room was a 15' square cube with cinderblock walls covered with drapes. On their first demo piece the presentation was completely overwhelmed by booming bass to the point where I could barely hear the vocals. After a while I could just make out that it was Holly Cole's Train song. When I remarked that the bass completely out of control the salesman just said: "these speakers have lots of bass".
At another dealer where the owner/salesman has been in business over 40 year I tried to audition the Magico A3s. After the first song I told him it sounded like mono and he replied: "your speakers must have some technology that expands the soundstage". A week later he emails to tell me that his dac was malfunctioning and sending a mono signal.
Another dealer/salesman with decades of experience, the Paradigm Founders 120H also completely overloaded the room with booming bass.
At a big box store they had the KEF R11 hooked up to an AVR and I asked them to set it to 2.0 stereo. During the demo I could hear that the in- ceiling speakers where also playing. The salesman told me I was just "hearing static".

But here it comes tricky because let's say on the contrary that the room is treated and EQ is applied, what then?

For example, the seller demos a subwoofer and this subwoofer in the demo room has EQ the shit out of it (so good FR, the bottom line). Superduper FR...in that room..with that EQ and room acoustic treatment.Something the buyer of that subwoofer will never get in his listening room unless the same measures are taken. Is it a serious demo?

Unless the addition in that case the seller says:

 

[voodooless]

For example, the seller demos a subwoofer and this subwoofer in the demo room has EQ the shit out of it. Superduper FR...in that room..with that EQ and room acoustic treatment.Something the buyer of that subwoofer will never get in their listening room unless the same measures are taken. Is it a serious demo?

It’s a serious opportunity to sell the room EQ equipment with the subwoofer

 

[Ron Texas]

The Eagles are more a corporation than a band.

You could say that about a lot of acts. Most of the money comes from touring these days. Streaming pays peanuts and CD sales are off 90% from their peak.

 

[Godataloss]

"Bless your heart"

 

[DanielT]

It’s a serious opportunity to sell the room EQ equipment with the subwoofer

Speaking of sounding good.

Some songs that were played over and over again at HiFi fairs, in HiFi stores. The ones that do well, sound good in a demo context. I almost dare to bet a month's salary that, for example, this song figured in , mentioned context , in other countries than Sweden:
(a really good song but damn how much it was played in said context)

 

[Bridges]

You could say that about a lot of acts. Most of the money comes from touring these days. Streaming pays peanuts and CD sales are off 90% from their peak.

I remenber the Melody Maker Had the Eagles pictured coming down the ramp of the plane at Heatrow, Instead of guitar cases as hand bagage they all had golf bags on their shoulders. Did not go down well with the core Brit music fans at the time.

 

[Ron Texas]

I remenber the Melody Maker Had the Eagles pictured coming down the ramp of the plane at Heatrow, Instead of guitar cases as hand bagage they all had golf bags on their shoulders. Did not go down well with the core Brit music fans at the time.

I'm not a golfer, but a guy has a right to his favorite activity. Just a side note here. The original Hotel California is a few miles North of Cabo San Lucas and has only 14 rooms. The owner daily brought ice in from the other side of the peninsula making it the first bar in the area to serve cold beer. Now, that's something special.

 

[ahofer]

What is your response when a salesman or manufacturer tells you that his speakers are so great, natural and highly resolving, that if you play a bad recording (ie. not a selected demonstration record of his choice) it will sound worse than on speakers of another brand?

In my last round of auditions I was fed a ton of lines like that. I just said “I don’t believe that” and smiled. Too many words and they start blabbing nonsense again. Sometimes they say “Oh, give me a morning and I’ll show you”, and I just repeat that I don’t believe it. When they realize they are arguing with the customer, they tend to take another direction.

One of the salesmen (If anyone knows the NJ dealer Audio Doctor) was actually on Audiogon talking some nonsense, and I put up an Archimago link with relevant tests. He said “oh, he sounds like one of those people who thinks all wires sound the same”, and I just said “yes, and so am I”. They need to hear that sort of thing more often.

 

[tw 2022]

I'm not a golfer, but a guy has a right to his favorite activity. Just a side note here. The original Hotel California is a few miles North of Cabo San Lucas and has only 14 rooms. The owner daily brought ice in from the other side of the peninsula making it the first bar in the area to serve cold beer. Now, that's something special.

I heard something about the original hotel being engulfed by the san andreas fault during an earthquake some time ago... This is purely from anecdotal memory ...

 

[Ron Texas]

I heard something about the original hotel being engulfed by the san andreas fault during an earthquake some time ago... This is purely from anecdotal memory ...

Maybe that's a different original Hotel California. The one in Baja is still in business.

 

[DanielT]

My memories of hifi sellers in Sweden, at the time when there were physical stores and when we were young teenagers, is that they were rather sour and disinterested. For obvious reasons because we didn't have the money to buy the expensive amplifiers, the expensive speakers, the record players that we longed for. BUT we could listen to the stuff in the shops and boy did we listen.

I wanted these. Active, yes you read that right, active speakers with ACE - Bass technology. I thought they sounded wonderfully good:

Audio Pro A4-14

There are two bass drivers down in the speaker box that are not visible in the picture.

Vintage Audio Pro A4-14 active speakers and self-made speaker stands

Hi guys, on my neverending search for great sounding, nice looking and affordable (vintage) speakers I discovered these wonderful sounding active...

forums.stevehoffman.tv

"Inventor Karl-Erik Ståhl.
The engineer Karl-Erik Ståhl is behind many of Audio Pro’s patented ingenious innovations, most notably ACE-Bass, which allows a deep bass from small subwoofers."

Our story - Audio Pro - Play Nice

www.audiopro.com

 

[thewas]

I wanted these. Active, yes you read that right, active speakers with ACE - Bass technology. I thought they sounded wonderfully good:

Audio Pro A4-14
View attachment 321478
There are two bass drivers down in the speaker box that are not visible in the picture.

Vintage Audio Pro A4-14 active speakers and self-made speaker stands

Hi guys, on my neverending search for great sounding, nice looking and affordable (vintage) speakers I discovered these wonderful sounding active...

forums.stevehoffman.tv

"Inventor Karl-Erik Ståhl.
The engineer Karl-Erik Ståhl is behind many of Audio Pro’s patented ingenious innovations, most notably ACE-Bass, which allows a deep bass from small subwoofers."

Our story - Audio Pro - Play Nice

www.audiopro.com

I really like Audio Pro, they still make good sounding loudspeakers in all classes they have offerings https://www.youtube.com/@oluvsgadgets/search?query=audio pro

 

[tw 2022]

I heard something about the original hotel being engulfed by the san andreas fault during an earthquake some time ago... This is purely from anecdotal memory ...

Maybe that's a different original Hotel California. The one in Baja is still in business.

that may have been the hotel that the vampire kids were using in "lost boys"( that got engulfed) now that i have reflected ...gotta get my trivia sorted out...

 

[RayDunzl]

At the High End Store

 

[BenB]

Do the people on this forum really not have the experience of a high end system revealing flaws with a recording that weren't noticeable on a lesser system? I do feel that sometimes those flaws end up being less forgivable than the issues with the lesser system that covered them up. As a metaphor, consider looking at a pixelated image, but you aren't wearing your glasses, so everything is blury. When you put your glasses on and fix the blur issue, the pixelation issue becomes obvious. You might prefer the blur to the pixelaton.

I might hear a song on the radio in my car, and think it sounds great, and promising that it will sound even better at home. In my car, the low frequencies are boosted to cover road noise (pretty much all cars do this because of the spectrum of road noise). When I play the song at home, I might find out that it's actually very thin sounding.

Other times a song sounds fine at low level, and when you try to turn up the volume, you realize the balance doesn't hold up. On a lesser system, you blame the system, because you know it distorts when played loud. Take that song to a good system and try to turn it up, and now you realize the song is to blame. Even if the good system might have made it sound better at the same volume level, you're still left disappointed that the nicer system couldn't make that song sound better than it does at higher volumes.

Similarly, when a song fails to image well or create a nice soundstage on a lesser system, you blame the system. Sometimes your imagination leads you to expect it will sound better on a nicer system... but it doesn't always.

 

[kevinh]

Sound quality is the least important part of a recording if you love music. Not everyone loves music, of course, some people just like marveling at sound.

My favorite reggae recordings sound like they were done on cassette tapes with the levels too high. My favorite classical piano recordings sound like they were made 100 feet from the performer. My favorite rock recordings are from BBC radio soundboards in the 70s. My favorite guitar music recordings have huge amounts of noise.

I like listening to Grateful Dead concerts on youtube especially shows I attended. The recording is what it is.

 

[tw 2022]

Do the people on this forum really not have the experience of a high end system revealing flaws with a recording that weren't noticeable on a lesser system? I do feel that sometimes those flaws end up being less forgivable than the issues with the lesser system that covered them up. As a metaphor, consider looking at a pixelated image, but you aren't wearing your glasses, so everything is blury. When you put your glasses on and fix the blur issue, the pixelation issue becomes obvious. You might prefer the blur to the pixelaton

of course we do... some of us are trying (doing it) it a a lower cost.. i keep whining about my $300 emotiva b1's that Dennis Murphy modded (they get sibilant) , then i realize that 95% of the "problem" is the source (media) is sibilant...these speakers with my "decent " svs pb1000pro give me about 80-90% of the best system i've heard yet.. i'll live with this set up for now , happily ...

 

[kevinh]

Ok A little off topic, but a tone control is a good thing to deal with less than perfect recordings. Richard Burwen designed the Cello Audio Palette in the 1980's he built a version for himself and M Levinson hah him design a version to produce. Heard it at a Stereophile Event in NYC in the 80's the thing was amazing. He later designed it as a piece of software in the 2000's. He decided to stop direct support some years ago ( I have Burwen Audio Splendor software) The software is an Audio Palette. the Daniel Hertz Master Class is the latest version being sold by M Levinson. Even if I had a full out Genelec system I would still use this software for optimizing the recording. Even if you have a 'perfect' playback system you can control the recording themselves. I value music not recording quality.

AUDIO_SPLENDOR

Software – Daniel Hertz S.r.l.

Daniel Hertz Software | Master Class Software upgrades your digital music library to the sound and feeling of pure analog master tapes.

danielhertz.com

At the second you can hear the effect it has with some older recordings.