Rotel A12 mkII vs Topping PA7 and E70 Velvet

[joco]

Hello audio science members!
Im thinking building a stereo system. I use computer for lisening music (flac/wav). I wanna buy around 1000-1400$ value floor standing speakers (forexample Canton GLE 90 or a used Monitor audio silver 300 or similar quality speakers). I thinking a Rotel A12 MKII version because I can connect my computer with usb to the amp/dac combo or I will buy a Topping PA7 and Topping E70 Velvet DAC combo. What you think which one is the better option for me and give me better quality sound? What would you choose? I want clean, detailed natural sounds and wide sound stage a system that sounding clean even low volume. Thanks any advice and help.

 

[Koeitje]

Probably wont be any perceivable difference in terms of D/A conversion, so just buy the biggest amplifier with the most headroom.

 

[RandomEar]

As long as the amp has enough power for the low end and isn't constructed of actual trash, the sound will be determined by your speakers and your room. I'd suggest concentrating on those and selecting an amp according to the desired power level. Add a UMIK-1 (~80 $) into the mix to calibrate the system afterwards using Equalizer APO and REW (both are free) and your're good.

Since you want to feed the system from your PC, I'd recommend using an optical connection (-> Toslink) to avoid possible ground loops and the occasional odd noise problem related to PC hardware. If your PC doesn't have a Toslink output, you can try out USB first and roll with it in case it works fine.

 

[MAB]

I would somewhat expand your amp choices. Plenty of integrated amps with transparent DACs and at lower price that will be transparent. No doubt the Rotel is a fine amp, premium even, from a really well established manufacturer with good support. And nice features. So is a Yamaha integrated for instance, at half the cost with slightly less luxurious touches. The Topping has limited connectivity and zero features, but fine measured performance, and is ultimately fairly expensive compared to a traditional integrated like a Yamaha, and ultimately may or may not be supported after-sales where you live.
Speakers are important, so you are right to consider that first. Sufficient power for the speakers is up there too. The room is incredibly important. The DAC in the units you are considering adds no sonic value good or bad, is not differentiable. Unless the DAC you get has really nice DSP, or is horribly broken, it won't factor in the sound reproduction.

 

[NoMoFoNo]

OP, not sure what the pricing is for these pieces where you are. Where I am, in the US, the Rotel goes for ~$1200, the E70 for ~$450 and the PA-7 is ~$450. So, $300 less for the Topping pieces, and they will perform (objectively) as well as anything you can buy. The PA-7 also puts out almost twice the power of the Rotel. The Topping 'stack' will require a smaller footprint if that matters. None of these pieces will hold value very well, fwiw. Normally I'd be drawn to the Topping pieces as compared to Rotel for price, performance and size reasons. But...see below.

My hesitation at this time would be with Topping's recent reliability and customer service issues. Check threads related to the PA5 here on ASR to get a feel for their use of potted modules and failures that occurred and the fallout thereafter. I'm a huge fan of Chinese manufacturers shaking things up in the (ridiculously overpriced) audio hobby, but Topping has some fence-mending to do at this time, IMO.

 

[maty]

I advise you not to choose the amplifier based on whether or not it has a USB input for the DAC as they are usually not very well implemented. I assume you live in Europe because of the hard you mention. You should seriously consider the Magnat MA 900 hybrid integrated (silver < €1,000 on Amazon Germany). I have been enjoying it since December 2022 on my second audio system.

Topping has too many complaints about the assistance they provide in case of problems, so other similar Chinese brands like SMSL seem more appropriate. SMSL DO400 €500 Amazon.

Canton GLE 90 is a good choice. Polk Audio R600 and Q Acoustics 5040 in the same range of prices maybe are better choices to listen to good recordings.

 

[ban25]

I have the A14 MKII and can confirm that the USB implementation, including the WSAPI and ASIO drivers on Windows, are well implemented and I am able to stream up to 24-bit/384 kHz FLAC from Roon with no issues. I would not hesitate to buy the A12.

 

[maty]

I was referring to the sound quality.

 

[ban25]

I was referring to the sound quality.

Sound quality does not exist.

 

[MAB]

I advise you not to choose the amplifier based on whether or not it has a USB input for the DAC as they are usually not very well implemented.

Which ones are not 'well implemented'? What is the poor implementation you are talking about? What do you mean by 'usually'? Actually, USB inputs on most reputable manufacturer's DAC are usually very well implemented these days. And not expensive.

 

[maty]

I suppose you also think that a €1,000 integrated device has a headphone amplification, phono preamplifier, DAC.. that are great. It will depend on the type of music being listened to and, above all, the recording quality.

If you listen to poorly recorded music, it is not necessary to spend a lot of money on music equipment, in fact, it can be counterproductive.

 

[MAB]

I suppose you also think that a €1,000 integrated device has a headphone amplification, phono preamplifier, DAC.. that are great.

Actually, closer to $350:

A-S301 - Features - Yamaha - United States

Designed for excellent sound quality, with a beautiful appearance. An integrated amplifier with the advantage of digital inputs.

usa.yamaha.com

60 Watts per channel my not be adequate for inefficient speakers and/or large rooms. Would be a very good amp, especially for a first foray into HiFi. With reliability and support. There are of course other options including more powerful and feature rich models in Yamaha's line.

I suppose you also think that a €1,000 integrated device has a headphone amplification, phono preamplifier, DAC.. that are great. It will depend on the type of music being listened to and, above all, the recording quality.

If you listen to poorly recorded music, it is not necessary to spend a lot of money on music equipment, in fact, it can be counterproductive.

The type of music or the recording characteristics will have no impact on the performance of these amps and DACs. Those are user-preference, and is not a factor in an amp or DAC. The tome controls will provide a small ability to correct frequency response issues in some recordings, but are not going to replace DSP parametric EQ. And of course, some recordings even of great performances are not good, but still absolutely worth listening to. Good equipment will not be counterproductive. Using a similar reductionist argument as you just made; good eyesight is not counterproductive in evaluating things we see.

 

[maty]

That belief is lost as soon as you listen to audio systems of a certain level. Let's not say if the room is acoustically conditioned.

But, good luck.

 

[NoMoFoNo]

OP asked about specific models under consideration. Perhaps posters could answer about the specific models he asked about?

 

[MAB]

OP asked about specific models under consideration. Perhaps posters could answer about the specific models he asked about?

If it's down to just the Rotel vs. the Topping, Rotel.
I have two Rotel RB-1090 amps. They were state of the art when I bought them, and they still sound great and have been 100% reliable to this day. And have noise floor low enough to be used even with a compression driver if you wanted. And exceed rated power by a healthy margin. I no longer have the Rotel preamp but likely the person I sold it to is still enjoying it. And Rotel typically is has good after-sales support in case of issue, since that is really important. Perhaps it is a bit premium, the new gear is really nice. And very nice feature set including digital connectivity.

 

[Snoopy]

If you are in Europe it's always worth checking out the Cambridge audio refurbished store (eBay for example).

You can get a Cambridge CXA81 (retail price 1199€) for as low as 799€ (with warranty and everything).

Yamaha is always a great budget choice as well. (Amazon returns or open box offers).

Or a refurbished rotel A12 (non MK2) for under 555€. Leaves plenty of money for a nice phono preamp (Cambridge alva solo refurbished).


* I purchased all my audio gear as refurbished or open box. And the stuff was all always in mint condition

 

[joco]

Does anyone have experience with the Audiolab new 7000A DAC/AMP combo? Recommend it?

 

[3125b]

Stereo reviewed some of the models mentioned in this thread:
https://www.stereo.de/hifi-test/produkt/cambridge-audio-cxa-81-1965 (this is the only one with a dedicated sub-out)
https://www.stereo.de/hifi-test/produkt/rotel-a14-1066 (closest thing to A12 MKII)
https://www.stereo.de/hifi-test/produkt/audiolab-6000a-1842 (closest thing to 7000A, 7000A is the only one of these with HDMI Arc)

There are some additional models: https://www.stereo.de/hifi-test/kategorie/vollverstaerker
But most don't work as a USB DAC, many have no USB at all, and some manufacturers (like Denon and Pioneer) have a USB input just for USB storage devices, not PC.

The Cambridge seems like a decent choice. The internal layout is a bit of a mess, but surprisingly signal quality seems to be the best among the devices listed. The Audiolab 7000A should be fairly comparable too. The Rotel A12 MKII has somewhat lower output power and presumably signal quality.

All of these have fairly high idle power consumption. A Topping stack (or any similar class D setup) would be much more efficient.