Room Measurement Tutorial for Dummies Part 2

[Krunok]

Tried the Harman target curve. At first it sounded too plump and billowy in the bass, but the ear adjusts. I really liked the result through the midrange, and treble was just right. However, +9 dB is way too much bass for a 2nd floor condo. I end up having to crank the sound way down when the bass drum comes in for fear of alienating the neighbors. If I lived in a detached house, I probably wouldn't care.

Maybe you can try to adjust target curve only in the bass region to suit your likings.

 

[Daverz]

Tried the Harman target curve. At first it sounded too plump and billowy in the bass, but the ear adjusts. I really liked the result through the midrange, and treble was just right. However, +9 dB is way too much bass for a 2nd floor condo. I end up having to crank the sound way down when the bass drum comes in for fear of alienating the neighbors. If I lived in a detached house, I probably wouldn't care.

OK, I figured out that any target curve will be added to the the already applied "psychoacoustic target" unless you turn this mode off (--PTTYPE=N). The psychoacoustic target has a similar low frequency rise to BK, but with a more "straight" roll off. No wonder adding the Harman curve resulted in way too much bass.

EDIT: I've been asked to describe how to turn off this psychoacoustic target mode. You can do it from the command-line or by editing the config file. On the command-line you'd use the option --PTTYPE=N for no psychoacoustic target:

drc --PTType=N --BCInFile=uncorrected_impulse.pcm --PSOutFile=correction_filter.pcm --PSPointsFile=bk48.txt  config.drc

Or you could set

PTType = N

in config.drc.

 

[Guilherme]

what would you say about using a usb condenser microphone to do so? I have a Samson C01U I bought years ago.

http://www.samsontech.com/samson/products/microphones/usb-microphones/c01ucw/

 

[Jungstar]

when can part 3 be expected?

Part III ?
Is it out? I assume we are going to move speakers around etc. Or play with setting.... I'm just not sure what to look for.... in the curve?

 

[nhunt]

Part III ?
Is it out? I assume we are going to move speakers around etc. Or play with setting.... I'm just not sure what to look for.... in the curve?

@amirm Bueller? :-D

 

[fsos]

Part III ?
Is it out? I assume we usa today protonmailare going to move speakers around etc. Or play with setting.... I'm just not sure what to look for.... in the curve?

Once you get your microphone, then all you have to do is plug it and either tell your operating system it is the default recording device, or tell REW to use it instead of the built-in microphone. Now repeat the lessons in the first tutorial. Compare the results to the built-in microphone. You should see less low frequency roll off and more accurate overall curve.

 

[spacevector]

Part 3 pronto por favor.

I'm a dues paying member now so I'm allowed to order around.

 

[ezra_s]

Hello,

I have a small room , 11m2 with some acoustic foam, furniture, etc..

With my Kef q150 I seem enjoy the listening and get pretty clear sound, but since I added the buchardt s400 to this room every time I listen to them it like my ears end up ringing sooner rather than later.

Since I am a total ignorant, I am not sure if I need to tune the eq for measurements or just that there is a fault in these speakers. or the room is too small (moved them to a 22m2 room and I end up having the same feeling with this speakers).

Since I found this guide kindly made by amirm decided to take measurements to see if there is anything wrong.. but I can't understand a thing of REW measurements to translate on what should be my main course of action.

Can some charitative soul make "some" sense of this measurements or tell me what is fundamentally wrong with them if so? (I'm attaching them).

I'd like to tame the buchardt s400 so I don't feel this overwhelming sensation to my ears (even at low volumes) but I am not sure what's wrong.

The output: RME - Adi-2 DAC + Buchardt S400 speakers
Room: 11m2 (rectangular)
Mic: Marantz 1608 measurement mic connected to a sound blaster sound card. (mic is mono, not stereo)
Room pic: The circle is usually where I sit, in front is the monitor, the back boxes are the kef q150, the buchardt s400 are the red boxes (boh speakers are a bit toed-in to my position (2-3º). Here is a room pic to demonstrate more or less.

The mic was over my chair measuring where I usually sit (placed at the same height where my ears are more or less.

And find the measurement attached.

Thanks a lot in advance in case anyone decides to take a peak.

 

[Hephaestus]

Hello,

I have a small room , 11m2 with some acoustic foam, furniture, etc..

With my Kef q150 I seem enjoy the listening and get pretty clear sound, but since I added the buchardt s400 to this room every time I listen to them it like my ears end up ringing sooner rather than later.

Since I am a total ignorant, I am not sure if I need to tune the eq for measurements or just that there is a fault in these speakers. or the room is too small (moved them to a 22m2 room and I end up having the same feeling with this speakers).

Since I found this guide kindly made by amirm decided to take measurements to see if there is anything wrong.. but I can't understand a thing of REW measurements to translate on what should be my main course of action.

Can some charitative soul make "some" sense of this measurements or tell me what is fundamentally wrong with them if so? (I'm attaching them).

I'd like to tame the buchardt s400 so I don't feel this overwhelming sensation to my ears (even at low volumes) but I am not sure what's wrong.

The output: RME - Adi-2 DAC + Buchardt S400 speakers
Room: 11m2 (rectangular)
Mic: Marantz 1608 measurement mic connected to a sound blaster sound card. (mic is mono, not stereo)
Room pic: The circle is usually where I sit, in front is the monitor, the back boxes are the kef q150, the buchardt s400 are the red boxes (boh speakers are a bit toed-in to my position (2-3º). Here is a room pic to demonstrate more or less.
View attachment 56094
The mic was over my chair measuring where I usually sit (placed at the same height where my ears are more or less.

And find the measurement attached.

Thanks a lot in advance in case anyone decides to take a peak.

Hello,

I took a quick look at your measurement file. There was only one channel measured and your measurement microphone looks a little suspicious in quality. I highly recommend that you invest 100 bucks in MiniDSP UMIK-1.

Your measurement indicates pretty serious lack of bass below 130Hz. 11m2 room is very challenging what comes to room modes. First you could move your listening position/speakers and repeat the measurements to find the best compromise. I am afraid that only way to get decent bass performance in a such a problematic room is to deploy multiple subwoofers and EQ them.

You have also lack of energy in upper midrange and hump in presence region. I have not seen high resolution measurements of your speakers so I cannot give specific answer what could be happening there.

 

[ezra_s]

Hello,

I took a quick look at your measurement file. There was only one channel measured and your measurement microphone looks a little suspicious in quality. I highly recommend that you invest 100 bucks in MiniDSP UMIK-1.

Your measurement indicates pretty serious lack of bass below 130Hz. 11m2 room is very challenging what comes to room modes. First you could move your listening position/speakers and repeat the measurements to find the best compromise. I am afraid that only way to get decent bass performance in a such a problematic room is to deploy multiple subwoofers and EQ them.

You have also lack of energy in upper midrange and hump in presence region. I have not seen high resolution measurements of your speakers so I cannot give specific answer what could be happening there.

Thanks so much for the tips, the buchard s400 are everything but lack of bass, in fact when I decrease the bass in the DAC is when I think I am more confortable with them....anyways its probably the ****** mic which is meant to calibrate a room for marantz 1608 receiver 7.1 receiver.

I expected to extract something useful from those initial readings, specially about resonance but thanks to your response now I know the readings are clearly not good. Thanks a whole lot for taking the time for this newbie that is I, when things get settled I will certainly aim for a good mic for measures!!

Cheers! I appreciate much.

 

[ezra_s]

Thanks so much for the tips, the buchard s400 are everything but lack of bass, in fact when I decrease the bass in the DAC is when I think I am more confortable with them....anyways its probably the ****** mic which is meant to calibrate a room for marantz 1608 receiver 7.1 receiver.

I expected to extract something useful from those initial readings, specially about resonance but thanks to your response now I know the readings are clearly not good. Thanks a whole lot for taking the time for this newbie that is I, when things get settled I will certainly aim for a good mic for measures!!

Cheers! I appreciate much.

I have been playing with placement with different results, put them closer to back wall and now I get much more bass than when I did the readings, oddly enough low bass is very high but mids were lacking.

Did a session with much louder volume to see if there is still break-in left to do or simply does not get along with my amp (which supposedly delivers 80w for 4ohm speakers) and I will have to return them, hopefully not.

Still, thanks a lot @Hephaestus for your feedback because that gave me a few ideas and angles on how to approach this to see if they are good for my whole setup.

 

[murl]

I took measurements of my 8cs yesterday, six measurements for each speaker with the responses averaged. I attempted to make a correction filter to correct 20-300hz using the curve that Toole/Olive suggested that people seem to prefer. The filter definitely attenuated the "peaks" throughout the lower frequencies and the difference is very audible. I'm still trying to decide if I like it. My question relates to why do we not really try to correct any of the "dips." Also is it worthwhile to to correct throughout the entire spectrum? Sorry for the basic questions I am a newb and trying to learn based on my specific situation. I'm really not sure why I have these "dips" in certain areas, I know it has to do with the room throughout the lower frequency but how do you isolate what the problem is, how easy is it to fix, and is it worth it. After the 8cs are Roon Ready I may have mitchco design some filters but I kind of enjoy tinkering with it in the mean time so that I understand some of this. Thanks for the advice.

Also not sure that it matters but I used the convolution filter in Roon rather than the parametric EQ in the 8cs. Lanspeaker was not behaving properly and this seemed much easier.

 

[Daverz]

Hello,
I have a small room , 11m2 with some acoustic foam, furniture, etc..

Do the speakers subjectively sound lean?

Some test tones may help. You can generate 1/3 octave tones with REW from, say, 31.5 Hz up to 160 Hz.

I concur with Hephaestus: given the drop off below 140 Hz, there is some issue with the electronics (EQ not turned off?), the speakers (seems unlikely, but stuff happens during shipment), or the mic. In such a small room and so close to the wall, there is no way the S400s would measure like that.

Also for troubleshooting issues like this, I would suggest a sound level meter (like the trusty Radio Shack 33-2050) and some spot frequency test tones as a sanity checker.

Here's the response my S400s in the common room of my condo, with your posted response on bottom.

 

[ezra_s]

Do the speakers subjectively sound lean?

Some test tones may help. You can generate 1/3 octave tones with REW from, say, 31.5 Hz up to 160 Hz.

I concur with Hephaestus: given the drop off below 140 Hz, there is some issue with the electronics (EQ not turned off?), the speakers (seems unlikely, but stuff happens during shipment), or the mic. In such a small room and so close to the wall, there is no way the S400s would measure like that.

Also for troubleshooting issues like this, I would suggest a sound level meter (like the trusty Radio Shack 33-2050) and some spot frequency test tones as a sanity checker.

Here's the response my S400s in the common room of my condo, with your posted response on bottom.View attachment 59537

At first they sounded lean to me, but I have been moving them around until I found a position that satisfy me for now.

thanks so much for your posting! A comparison like this helps me a lot.

Like Hephaestus says my mic is "mono" and quite crappy, I just used it because my marantz has it for measuring.
I didn't adjust SPL in REW before doing the measurements either,perhaps that explains the difference in levels? I also didn't know how to use REW much (still don't know) and took the measurement following the basic instructions, so perhaps I am missing other things I need to set the mic up, like craking the "input" to 100% or things like that. Will have to re-take measures no doubt.

Which mic did you use for the measurements?

Hopefully I can do more proper tests this week and compare.

 

[Daverz]

At first they sounded lean to me, but I have been moving them around until I found a position that satisfy me for now.

thanks so much for your posting! A comparison like this helps me a lot.

Like Hephaestus says my mic is "mono" and quite crappy, I just used it because my marantz has it for measuring.
I didn't adjust SPL in REW before doing the measurements either,perhaps that explains the difference in levels? I also didn't know how to use REW much (still don't know) and took the measurement following the basic instructions, so perhaps I am missing other things I need to set the mic up, like craking the "input" to 100% or things like that. Will have to re-take measures no doubt.

Which mic did you use for the measurements?

Hopefully I can do more proper tests this week and compare.

Measurement mics produce one channel of sound. At least, I've never heard of a stereo one. I use the Umik-1 since it's USB plug-and-play. Perhaps your Marantz mic's frequency response drops off like that.

 

[Hephaestus]

Maybe Ezra misunderstood my message: Channels should be measured separately

 

[SimpleTheater]

What kind of results would I get with a Blue Yeti microphone? Or should I just not be a cheapskate and get the Minidsp UMIK-1 ?

 

[QMuse]

What kind of results would I get with a Blue Yeti microphone? Or should I just not be a cheapskate and get the Minidsp UMIK-1 ?

UMIK-1 is IMO your best bet, it's cheap, works with REW like a charm and is accurate enough.

 

[SimpleTheater]

UMIK-1 is IMO your best bet, it's cheap, works with REW like a charm and is accurate enough.

I wasn't clear in my post. I already have a Blue Yeti. Will it work well?

 

[QMuse]

Do the speakers subjectively sound lean?

Some test tones may help. You can generate 1/3 octave tones with REW from, say, 31.5 Hz up to 160 Hz.

I concur with Hephaestus: given the drop off below 140 Hz, there is some issue with the electronics (EQ not turned off?), the speakers (seems unlikely, but stuff happens during shipment), or the mic. In such a small room and so close to the wall, there is no way the S400s would measure like that.

Also for troubleshooting issues like this, I would suggest a sound level meter (like the trusty Radio Shack 33-2050) and some spot frequency test tones as a sanity checker.

Here's the response my S400s in the common room of my condo, with your posted response on bottom.View attachment 59537

This looks pretty good but I would still try to adjust this part so it falls closer to blue line: