Room EQ & component upgrade

[pavlorr]

Hi,

First of all, I just discovered this forum a few days ago and I must say that it's blown my mind how nice of a community this is.

I found this forum because I've been unhappy with the sound of my system and was specifically looking for EQ possibilities. To preface this, I am an absolute amateur when it comes to sound systems. I understand the role of each component but all the intricacies that you guys research are way way waaaaaaaaaayyyyy above my league. Specifically, about a year ago, I got the Klipsch RP-600M (that were given a rather negative review on the forum) for a 2.1 setup. When my partner and I got them, we auditioned them versus a number of capable (and often suggested here) speakers such as KEFs, ELACs, Monitor Audio Silvers and others and we both agreed they sounded the best BUT we were never able to emulate that quality at home.

Our system consists of the following:

Chromecast -> Sony Bravia -> Toslink -> DAC -> Onkyo -> Klipsch RP600M/Wharfedale 150W

There are three problems that I want to try and solve (with a budget of <£1000):

1. I've not measured the Frequency Response yet, but by ear, I am not expecting a good graph.

2. Onkyo does not have a dedicated sub-out which means my sub is wired with the speakers (according to Wharfedale's spec);

3. My DAC is not great and ideally, I would like to replace it

After spending ~30hours of the last 3 days reading about EQing, minidsp, etc. , I think I have the following options:

Option 1: Get a parametric EQ like Yamaha YDP-2006 and insert it between the DAC and AMP. This would not give me a sub-out but would at least help me with some room EQ at an affordable price

Option 2: Get a Minidsp 2x4 HD to replace the DAC, RCA to Onkyo for the speakers and use one of its outputs to RCA the sub. This would be the most cost-efficient approach but, as I understand, if I ever wanted to move to a 5.1 (or higher) system, it would be slightly more challenging to achieve (as minidsp has only 4 outputs)

Option 3: Get a Denon avr-x3600h to replace both the DAC & the Onkyo. Audyssey should really allow me to Room EQ almost as well as the miniDSP would, plus it has a HUGE array of inputs/outputs to cover all the needs I don't know I have. When I look at the Denon, it comes at £750 and provides a seemingly unmatched array of features for that price. How much am I sacrificing in audio quality for choosing a receiver over a hifi amp?

Does the above make any sense? If so, do you think I am heading into the right direction with the setup?

I really hope this didn't break any rules and is concise enough. Thank you for taking the time to read it. Any help is greatly appreciated

 

[Cahudson42]

Personally, the avr-x3600h at £750 sounds hard to beat. You can start with your existing toslink in from the Bravia to compare, then go from there. Perhaps later moving the RP600m to surround duty, should you decide to go 5.1, whatever with new main L R.... Lots of flexibility, as you observed..

While there are a lot of differing opinions on how to split your budget between speakers and electronics, certainly the majority will favor spending as much as you can afford on the speakers and less on the electronics.

Get the avr-x3600h, and as Amir observed in the RP600m review, let Audessey 'beat them into shape'. Hopefully this way, your main electronics are 'done' for a bit, and you can apply your remaining £250 elsewhere..

 

[Hipper]

You first really have to decide what it is exactly you want - a stand alone Hi-Fi system or a home theatre with music capabilities. Then you need to look at your sources - streaming, CDs etc..

Stand alone Hi-Fi is mostly stereo but you'll see on here that plenty have moved to multi channel (MC) of various sorts. The problem seems to be what music is available in multi channel. If the music you like is not available, or mostly not available, in MC there are hardware and software processors that convert stereo to MC.

Home Theatre is of course often MC.

As was said, it seems to make most sense for you to get a receiver of some sort. I don't know much about them as I'm just a stereo man. I've also no idea how their amps compare to a standalone amp. What I do know is that it's wise to make sure that your amp can drive your speakers.

The need for EQ/DSP is mainly connected to how speakers operate in your room. You've already discovered from your speaker trials that good performance in one room does not mean good performance in another. It is probably not the speakers fault but how they are positioned in the room. It's easy to hear by playing something with strong bass and walking round the room - it sounds different depending where you are. Positioning of speakers and your listening chair is the key factor as well as the shape and contents of the room itself. Any reasonable equipment can sound much better by getting this right. Unfortunately compromises often have to be made because of your own circumstances. Even with the ideal position it is most likely you will still need careful use of EQ/DSP to get the best out of a system.

To summarize:

1. Work out as best you can exactly what you want to do/play.
2. Position speakers and listening chair as best you can, especially for bass frequencies.
3. Perhaps use room treatment - bass traps etc. - to improve the sound.
4. Use EQ/DSP to complete the job.

Often 2 and 3 are not possible because of your domestic situation. They are the ideal but EQ/DSP can still help.

In all this you need some way of measuring what is going on. The best way is with a microphone and measuring software but other methods could include test tones and your ears or sound pressure level meter.

With EQ/DSP there is a lot to learn if you really want to understand what you are doing. There's lots of resources that can help. Just ask!

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

A second vote for a Denon AVR.
While audiophiles often shun these devices, the real world benefits of ease of use and versatility trump a few zeros after the decimal point in the THD spec.

How much am I sacrificing in audio quality for choosing a receiver over a hifi amp?

To be frank: that depends on your real world power needs. If you stay within the power spec of the AVR, I would say that it would be impossible to distinguish a good AVR (DSP processing disabled of course) from a good Hifi (read: stereo) amp in a properly conducted, volume matched double blind test. If the AVR has a decent room correction software built in, I'd say the chances are high that it would leave the HiFi amp in the dust, as far as bass evenness and quality is concerned.

If you need a ton of power (large room, large sitting distance to the speakers, inefficient speakers, demand for THX reference level to make your prosthesis fall out) then you'd probably need an additional multichannel power amp. Judging by the wattage of your sub and the fact that you use bookshelf speakers, I don't think that's the case, so I would not worry.

Just make sure that any AVR you buy has pre-outs for all channels. That way, should you find yourself in the situation of needing more power, you can keep using it as a processor and just add the power amp.