RME experts - I need some help

[muslhead]

I posted this over at RME but i think due to the uniqueness of my problem, i am going to need more eyes so i thought i should post here too.

I am a new owner so appreciate your patience. Have gone through the 100+ page manual a dozen times but its clear, experience will add dramatically to my knowledge of how to use and appreciate all its flexibility, of which i have none.

My setup
A raspberry pi, usb output to the ADI2pro/fs/be. I use jriver as my player. Within jriver i am running the parametric equalizer to smooth out room modes (measured with umik & REW). I run the analogoutput from the ADI2 to feed my desktop active/sub speakers (neumann). Additionally, at times, i will also the aes output found on the breakout cable to feed my family room active/subs (dutch8cs). My source is a large local file library using jriver which also allows me to stream amazon music.

Performance is supurb and works flawlessly playing, flac, hires , dsf, mp3 and wav music files. Never had an issue with any format or sample rate. Whatever i throw at it, works.

I purchased a matrix element s (streamer with digi output). Inserting the matrix for the raspberry pi and keeping everything else the same I am having problems playing any file that has a sr above 48k.

Here is what is strange
- at times the matrix/rme duo barf at a hi res song yet other times it plays that same song without issue. The inconsistency is amazing
- it typically only barfs (stutters, drops out, stops etc) at 192k but once it barfs and until i reboot the rme, all other lower res songs that have played fine, now get the same barfing action.
- I tried using the optical output from the matrix (instead of usb) but there was no change in not being able to play hi res files.
- Clearly its a defective matrix, right? no, not really becauase if i insert the matrix in another setup (matrix usb output to emotiva pre/pro) i have in a different room, all songs play flawlessly without problem ... even those that would not play with the matrix rme combo.

I have a file of 20secs of a 24/192k lou reed song i played on the rme/maxtrix combo and recorded on my phone. If i can attach it to my post i will so it will be clear what is happening.

I initially thought it was the matrix but it playing everything flawlessly in my other system says the matrix is likely not the problem. Then, I thought it was my setup of the rme that was at fault but if the rme pi combo plays perfectly then that is likely not the problem. Next, I looked at jriver being the problem, So, I played around with the settings and found some definitions of my dlna servers that were definitely capable of causing problems so i fixed them. Once i fixed all those potential issues, i still have a matrix rme problem as it did nothing to resolve the problem.

The manual speaks of never enough dsp power which, at hires sample rates could be the cause is the only other thing i could think may be the cause. is this a real possibilty for me? If so, why does it work with the pi?

Other than that, i am out of ideas and have nothing to try.

You may be wondering why not just keep the pi and ditch the matrix. The only reason for the matrix is i like its ability to show album art (my pi wont with jriver). While that is my preference (especially when the alternative is not being able to stream amazon and play an extensive collection of hires music), its not critical so i am ready to send the matrix back and just use the pi. But hoping someone who is much smarter and knowledgeable of the rme might have some ideas on what i might be experiencing and some suggestions on what to try next.

Thanks, in advance

 

[Keith_W]

To be clear, the symptom you are describing is: it initially plays OK, but if you leave it playing for some time, you develop a problem? And a reboot of your Raspberry fixes the problem? And the problem is worse or occurs faster if you play 192kHz files?

This suggests some kind of memory leak or buffer issue. To confirm the problem, increase the buffer size in JRiver (Tools - Options - Audio, under "Audio Device", set the "Device Settings" slider to the left, i.e. more skip resistant). You could also play 44.1kHz instead of 192kHz.

 

[unpluggged]

I purchased a matrix element s (streamer with digi output).

How is it connected to the ADI-2 Pro? Does the USB remain connected to the RPI at the same time as the Matrix? What is shown on the ADI-2 Pro's State Overview screen when you get stutters while playing from the Matrix?

 

[Rja4000]

You have to make sure the RME gets its clock from the digital input you connected the matrix to.
If that's the optical SPDIF, you may have to specify it in the RME Setup/Spdif menu.

If you scroll through the displays, there is an overview of digital inputs.
This is very informative.
Also, in the bottom bar, the clock source and frequency are always displayed (in the photo below, "SPo" means SPDIF optical)

If you have an issue, do a photo of the overview screen and show it here (with details on source sample rate and on the digital input you used on the RME)

 

[muslhead]

How is it connected to the ADI-2 Pro? Does the USB remain connected to the RPI at the same time as the Matrix? What is shown on the ADI-2 Pro's State Overview screen when you get stutters while playing from the Matrix?

the matrix is connected to the rme via usb. Because of the problems described, i tried using the optical output from the matrix to the rme (removing the usb) and after reconfiguration of the rme to optical input, no change to the behavior was observed.

 

[muslhead]

You have to make sure the RME gets its clock from the digital input you connected the matrix to.
If that's the optical SPDIF, you may have to specify it in the RME Setup/Spdif menu.

If you scroll through the displays, there is an overview of digital inputs.
This is very informative.
Also, in the bottom bar, the clock source and frequency are always displayed (in the photo below, "SPo" means SPDIF optical)

View attachment 297478

If you have an issue, do a photo of the overview screen and show it here (with details on source sample rate and on the digital input you used on the RME)

Thanks,
your comment about getting the clock from the matrix ... i thought i read in the rme manual that it is best to use the internal (int setting) clock of the rme. Did i misread?
I will set it up again and get two pictures of this state overview screen from both the usb and optical outs of the matrix.

 

[MarkHH]

the matrix is connected to the rme via usb. Because of the problems described, i tried using the optical output from the matrix to the rme (removing the usb) and after reconfiguration of the rme to optical input, no change to the behavior was observed.

How is the Matrix connected to your local file library? LAN or WLAN? If it is WLAN then welcome to the club: I encounter the same problems here, stuttering audio when playing HiRes files due to a stuttering WLAN.

 

[muslhead]

How is the Matrix connected to your local file library? LAN or WLAN? If it is WLAN then welcome to the club: I encounter the same problems here, stuttering audio when playing HiRes files due to a stuttering WLAN.

The matrix is connected via wired gb lan. I am confident its not my network.
I wish it were this easy of a solution

 

[unpluggged]

your comment about getting the clock from the matrix ... i thought i read in the rme manual that it is best to use the internal (int setting) clock of the rme. Did i misread?

For USB input, the clock should be set to Internal. For optical/coaxial/AES input, the clock should be set accordingly, as explained by @Rja4000.

And I'd like to repeat the question about the State Overview display:

What is shown on the ADI-2 Pro's State Overview screen when you get stutters while playing from the Matrix?

 

[muslhead]

To be clear, the symptom you are describing is: it initially plays OK, but if you leave it playing for some time, you develop a problem? And a reboot of your Raspberry fixes the problem? And the problem is worse or occurs faster if you play 192kHz files?

This suggests some kind of memory leak or buffer issue. To confirm the problem, increase the buffer size in JRiver (Tools - Options - Audio, under "Audio Device", set the "Device Settings" slider to the left, i.e. more skip resistant). You could also play 44.1kHz instead of 192kHz.

It appears my write up is not clear (partly due to inconsistent behavior of my setup)
I tried rebooting the rme, not the pi, and it seems to reset it to make SOME of the hires files that wouldnt play before, play fine.
Yes, the higher resolution files are more likely to be a problem versus the lower. So, 192k most of the files are a problem, 96k have only some of the files being a problem. as you get down to red book cd, everything plays without issue

Thanks for the buffering recommendation within jriver. That is the first thing i thought of but that slider is only for the "player" not a dlna player on the network. When configuring the matrix-rme dlna player within media network -> add or configure dlna servers -> and then going to the server i have set up for the rme-matrix combo, there is no option to for a buffer change.
The only way to get that buffer slider is using the "player" as the selected zone. So, should i not be configuring the rme-matrix combo as a new zone?

 

[muslhead]

For USB input, the clock should be set to Internal. For optical/coaxial/AES input, the clock should be set accordingly, as explained by @Rja4000.

And I'd like to repeat the question about the State Overview display:

Ok, thanks for the clarification. That is how i understood it.
As soon as i get back from my appt later this morning i will reset up the matrix-rme combo and take a pic of the state overview display when using both the usb and optical outs from the matrix

 

[Rja4000]

Thanks,
your comment about getting the clock from the matrix ... i thought i read in the rme manual that it is best to use the internal (int setting) clock of the rme. Did i misread?
I will set it up again and get two pictures of this state overview screen from both the usb and optical outs of the matrix.

With USB, you rely on the compatibility of drivers between Matrix and RME.
Quite a wild field.
The RME should (and does) work with generic drivers. It works perfectly with my Samsung Note 9 Android smartphone, as an example.
But, well, that's computer field, so...

I'd keep it simple and use a basic SPDIF or (better probably) AES/EBU connection between both.

Since the Matrix is the one knowing the proper sampling frequency and bit rate for the music, it makes sense to use it as master clock.
The RME should select that clock automatically IF there is no other digital source connected and IF you kept the default "auto" setting in the clock menu.
But you may as well force the clock source in the RME.
(Which you should do to troubleshoot your issue anyway, IMO.)

If you do this, it all should be good.

 

[muslhead]

With USB, you rely on the compatibilité of drivers between Matrix and RME.
Quite a wild field.

I'd keep it simple and use a basic SPDIF or (better probably) AES/EBU connection between both.

Since rhe Matrix is the one knowing the proper sampling frequency and bit rate for the music, it makes sense to use it as master clock.
The RME should select that clock automatically IF there is no other digital source connected and IF you kept the default "auro" setting in the clock menu.
But you may as well force the clock source in the RME.

If you do this, it all should be good.

I don't know what you do with the Babyface and how you connect it, but same applies for it.

the the problem with the spdif or aes is that
1)changing to either of these outputs did not fix the issue using the matrix.
2) even if it did work with hires, it will not play my thousands of dsf files .... unless they are converted. Neither of those formats will play dsd256 or 512


BTW - I dont have a babyface, just using the rme as my external dac from my streamer(s)

 

[Keith_W]

Thanks for the buffering recommendation within jriver. That is the first thing i thought of but that slider is only for the "player" not a dlna player on the network. When configuring the matrix-rme dlna player within media network -> add or configure dlna servers -> and then going to the server i have set up for the rme-matrix combo, there is no option to for a buffer change.
The only way to get that buffer slider is using the "player" as the selected zone. So, should i not be configuring the rme-matrix combo as a new zone?

If you route all your audio through JRiver, then that setting I suggested will affect everything that JRiver sends to your DAC in the current zone, including anything sent to it via DLNA. When I listen to streamed music, I cast it from my tablet to JRiver via DLNA and everything works fine.

 

[Rja4000]

For high frequency DSD, make sure to set the RME for Stereo mode

 

[Rja4000]

Neither of those formats will play dsd256 or 512

I think that's the first time you mentioned DSD.
And, of course this won't work with the RPi with parametric EQ solution you were explaining in the original post either.

The Matrix itself is limited to 2.8MHz DoP
(DSD64) on anything but USB.

To be honnest, I don't really get the benefit of DSD, to begin with.
But thats your choice.

 

[muslhead]

For high frequency DSD, make sure to set the RME for Stereo mode

View attachment 297534

thanks

 

[muslhead]

I think that's the first time you mentioned DSD.
And, of course this won't work with the RPi with parametric EQ solution you were explaining in the original post either.

No, i mentioned dsd above when i stated it plays all files (included dsf) flawlessly when discussing the pi
I am forced to have to switch zones in jriver when playing dsd files to a server that is setup for dsf. I rarely play them but occassionally, when i do i have some rearranging of the setup.

The Matrix itself is limited to 2.8MHz DoP
(DSD64) on anything but USB.

Yup, and why i prefer to use usb only. Otherwise i would have to switch cables or outputs or servers in jriver. Not a big deal but would rather not if i could find a solution that does them all. The matrix element i2 does it all but doesnt have a digital output so it doesnt work playing my aes dutch8c speakers in the other room unless i use my singxer usb bridge (but this adds one ... more .... device which i am trying to reduce)

To be honnest, I don't really get the benefit of DSD, to begin with.
But thats your choice.

I never said there was a benefit. IF you had thousands of files like i do i am guessing you would want to be able to listen to them if possible.
Additionally, i prefer to play natively but am willing bypass this desire if my solution needed to. But, thankfully, dsd works fine so this is a moot point.

 

[muslhead]

Thanks to everyone who has replied and given ideas.
I am going to put this thread on hold while i go away for 24 hours. i think i have found the problem but before i throw a party in celebration, i want to make sure i have run everything through the gaunlet many times to before i do.
Thanks again to all

 

[muslhead]

If you route all your audio through JRiver, then that setting I suggested will affect everything that JRiver sends to your DAC in the current zone, including anything sent to it via DLNA. When I listen to streamed music, I cast it from my tablet to JRiver via DLNA and everything works fine.

Thanks Keith.
If true, that could be very helpful.
Just to make sure i am clear ...
I am not using the "player" zone. That buffer option is not available on the zone (the dlna server i setup and am using for my desktop setup). So, if i make the buffer change for the player zone, that affects all other zones or just the player zone.
IF only the player zone, then a solution might be to use it instead of the custom one i setup for the rme-matrix combo

Either way, i will make those changes and see if its helpful in my situation (see my post above about going away for 24 hours and do my testing)