Boulder or topping dac

[Ashl777]

I stumbled upon asr and love objective testing of equipment as well as subjective views. I have multiple systems from classe delta monos paired with bowers 800 d2 and d3 to mcintosh xrt2k tri amped with the best from the stable. Im building a 3rd system. Bowers and wilkins 800 matrix d appolo arrangement with krell solo 575 monos. Looking to pair with the best dac that my $10-12k budget can allow. I have chance to audition a preowned boulder 812 and was curious how this would compare spec/measurement wise with the best budget permitting out there especially topping.

 

[Steven Holt]

First, I'd like to welcome you to ASR. You're going to find that the great majority of our membership is very level-headed and practical when it comes to this hobby. One thing we don't believe in is 'the more expensive the better it is'. We strongly believe in objective testing as it is provable. And don't get us started about cables. Now, to your question, Boulder or Topping DAC. I cannot find any objective testing of this Boulder preamp, and that raises alarm bells right away, and the fact they won't reveal the chip they use makes me question it even more. The fact that it is $9300 new is just flat out crazy. I'm willing to bet you that you won't be able to tell the difference between this unit and the Toppping D10 in a blind, controlled listening test. There's your answer.

 

[MAB]

It's very hard to hear differences in DACs. Most are audibly identical, and thus beyond our hearing to discern. Some have odd frequency response due to the filter, but even this is extremely subtle. Likely the Boulder is transparent, unless they did some wonky filter application. I like RME DACs, they include PEQ, which the Matrix 800 may benefit from. DACs were solved ages ago, they are computers that render output voltage from data. If you stick around, this will become very clear.

Anyone have experience with the bowers and wilkins 800 matrix with the d appolo arrangement?

I like B&W matrix models, especially the 802 and 801 from that period. The 800 is not my favorite. The 800 has oddly recessed midrange. We had a pair at the store I worked at, and I much preferred the 802, which was one of my favorite speakers at that time. We already sold the Infinty IRS line, so a large format speaker like the 800 was going to have to be fantastic, and it quite frankly wasn't. It also didn't agree with many of our sales people and customer's aesthetic, but that is definitely a polarizing topic.

Lastly, it actually isn't a D'Appolito alignment. It is a 2.5-way midrange arrangement, mated to a a pair of woofers. The two mids are crossed differently to the tweeter to try to avoid combing and interference.

I wouldn't worry about the DAC for sure.

 

[DSJR]

A $250 dac with balanced outputs from the ASR recommended list will do what you want with performance to spare, but is it what you NEED??? An RME for around a grand will do everything and more than a dedicated music lover and audiophile will need, in a discrete box.

Don't flame me/us here, but high end hifi should really be called EYE FI as it's usually all about the appearance, casework engineering, the 'story' that audiophiles can weave around a brand and in some markets, the price tag is all important too... Inside, it's all too often simple not-expensive circuits, even if some are dressed up with boutique parts that make little sonic difference if said components aren't known about (as soon as they are, they're automatically 'better' sounding in my experience.

Dacs have come on so very far in the last ten to fifteen years, that even a sub £/$100 model will beat a high end type from twenty or so years ago.

You may not believe me, but I think that's pretty much how it is

 

[amirm]

Here are the Boulder DAC specs from their manual:
----

Assuming they are correct and similar to our protocols, the Boulder is far, far worse objectively than the Topping. At nominal 2 volts, it has a SINAD of 96 dB so can't even provide transparency to CD quality audio.

On the plus side, it has substantially higher output voltage. So to the extent you are driving a very low gain amplifier, its performance may be a bit better than above states.

Either way, on objective level, I would not remotely purchase it over Topping. Even an $89 SMSL DAC far outperforms it.

So the only reason to get it is for features, looks, etc.

 

[sq225917]

$1000 buys ypu a lot of Chinese DAC. Level matched on output voltage i thing you'd struggle to tell any good dac apart in a blind test.

 

[amirm]

I am a fan of massive Boulder amplifiers. But that DAC, is sure ugly:

 

[kemmler3D]

@Steven Holt and @amirm have pretty much covered it.

DACs turn numbers into voltages and that's pretty much it. All science and no art. In 2025 they do have it down to a science.

So the good news is a much cheaper DAC is just as good as an expensive one.

The bad news is that's kind of boring and there's no way to get better sound by spending more.

But if you want a serious rabbit hole that can eat up a $10k budget and more, with real improvements to the sound, look into acoustic treatments...

 

[kemmler3D]

I am a fan of massive Boulder amplifiers. But that DAC, is sure ugly:

If I saw this in a museum I'd take it as a commentary on food science by way of visually juxtaposing slices of cheese and lab equipment.

 

[Cbdb2]

The usual audiophool hi end electronics. Great marketing, poor performance, outrages price.

 

[JustJones]

If you're hankering to spend a lot there's the Mola Mola Tambaqui. At least it looks better IMO, might not to you.

Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC and Streamer Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Mola Mola Tambaqui USB DAC and Ethernet streamer. It is on kind loan from a member which is quite special when you consider it costing US $11,500 (£8,999). As it should be the Tambaqui weights a lot relative to its size with generous use of...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[Ashl777]

Lol the tambaqui was the other one i was looking at. Also expensive. Personally if i could find a trinnov altitude 16 preowned ill go that route(again).Did miracles for a a untreated cave cinema. I have realized that output voltage on the xlr sometimes mis matches with the power amps. In this case i was looking for something that could drive the krell solo 575 well and also have headphone out. Problem is i see people complaining about headphone stage not powerful enough to drive my susvaras. What would be the topping alternative to what i want? The dx9?
How does the chord hugo2 and mscaler or dave compare measurement wise to the topping?

 

[Chester]

Lol the tambaqui was the other one i was looking at. Also expensive. Personally if i could find a trinnov altitude 16 preowned ill go that route(again).Did miracles for a a untreated cave cinema. I have realized that output voltage on the xlr sometimes mis matches with the power amps. In this case i was looking for something that could drive the krell solo 575 well and also have headphone out. Problem is i see people complaining about headphone stage not powerful enough to drive my susvaras. What would be the topping alternative to what i want? The dx9?
How does the chord hugo2 and mscaler or dave compare measurement wise to the topping?

At least with the Tambaqui, you know it measures well.

 

[kemmler3D]

How does the chord hugo2 and mscaler or dave compare measurement wise to the topping?

IIRC they are comparable and will sound the same in any reasonable usage. Personally if I had $10k to upgrade a system that already had mains, I'd probably try to build a double bass array or otherwise use some of the fancy ART / waveforming tech out there.

 

[Norcal]

Lol the tambaqui was the other one i was looking at. Also expensive. Personally if i could find a trinnov altitude 16 preowned ill go that route(again).Did miracles for a a untreated cave cinema. I have realized that output voltage on the xlr sometimes mis matches with the power amps. In this case i was looking for something that could drive the krell solo 575 well and also have headphone out. Problem is i see people complaining about headphone stage not powerful enough to drive my susvaras. What would be the topping alternative to what i want? The dx9?
How does the chord hugo2 and mscaler or dave compare measurement wise to the topping?

RME dac - somebody already mentioned it

 

[Ashl777]

RME dac - somebody already mentioned it

Is that the german version of the topping or vice versa?

 

[unpluggged]

Is that the german version of the topping or vice versa?

Did you come here just to troll?

 

[Ashl777]

No i read some article about it somewhere else. Just remember topping brand as im new to it. I dont care if something is made in the backstreets of a north korean prison camp. I like well made things that also measure well for their purpose.

 

[Ashl777]

No i read some article about it somewhere else. Just remember topping brand as im new to it. I dont care if something is made in the backstreets of a north korean prison camp. I like well made things that also measure well for their purpose.

So is the topping and rme different manufacturers take on similar looking dac? Pricing in the same line?Im in south africa and we dont have all the info from dealers etc.

 

[BeeKay]

So is the topping and rme different manufacturers take on similar looking dac?

Yes. Both use about the same box size and have four feet. Almost indistinguishable.