RME ADI-2 DAC vs Pro for Genelec

[TimH]

Hi Guys,

I have a pair of 8341s and and a 7350 via GLM, currently running from a Soncoz LAQXD1. I am running balanced out from the Soncoz with Apple TV as an input via optical from my TV. The setup sounds amazing and works well. However I would like to get remote volume control and as I listen to most of my music as a lower volume - Loudness control. From what I understand RME offer the best version of this in their DAC and there aren't really any alternatives without having a pc hooked up.

My question is - do you think there would be an audible difference between the analogue out of the ADI-2 DAC vs the digital out of the PRO? Obviously there is a fairly significant price difference between the two so I don't want to spend the extra money if there will be no difference.

I know I could get digital out at a lower price point by using the coax out from my Soncoz and the Genelec remote but would lose loudness control.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

Thanks

Tim

 

[TimH]

@Purité Audio have you been able to do a side by side comparison with the ADI-2 and Pro? From everything I've read there appears to be a slight difference in sound between the analogue and digital outputs.

 

[linuxfan]

Many studio monitors these days are all-digital - the input, generally AES3, goes to a DSP programmed to split the signal into low/mid/high frequencies, then on to 3 digital amplifiers. The analogue inputs, therefore, must go through an ADC prior to the DSP. So it makes sense to go all-digital if you can - no DAC required!
But there's a problem - pro audio gear often provides an AES3 output, but consumer equipment does not.
In your case you want to extract digital audio from the Apple TV's HDMI output, and convert it to AES3 for the Genelec's. I don't think there's an off-the-shelf product which will do this, but you could DIY using this -
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/diy-...-hdmi-mhl-to-i2s-coaxial-optical-p-13419.html
and this -
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/diy-...u-xlr-110-ohm-for-amanero-wm8805-p-11488.html
Then you just need volume control - I understand you can use a Genelec volume controller via the GLM adapter, either wired 9310B, or wireless 9101B.

 

[TimH]

Thanks @linuxfan Thats really useful info and cheers for the links too. Am I right in understanding that the TV would do some kind of conversion from the Apple TV then? and thats why its better to take the audio direct from the HDMI?

 

[linuxfan]

Actually the TV does the same conversion as the HDMI audio extractor. But it's more direct to go HDMI-to-AES3 - it takes an additional s/pdif conversion out of the chain.
And don't worry, you can still watch the Apple TV output on your TV - on that first converter I linked to, there's an HDMI pass-through.

 

[TimH]

Great cheers! I think if I go with this option I can run coax to AES out of the box as I'm not confident to DIY and then go with the remote. The only thing its missing is the 'Loudness' control the RME offers - I guess for that the best thing would be to try a unit and see if its worth it - the £800 extra does seem like a lot if that's the only additional feature I would use.

 

[linuxfan]

I think if I go with this option I can run coax to AES out of the box

Sure, that would work. Though I must say that s/pdif-to-AES converters are rare, the only one I know of is the Hosa CDL-313. Is that what you have?

 

[TimH]

I don't. I was considering it but think I can use a coax to AES cable as its a short run. The only other issue I might have now is that I lose analogue outs to run my Stax, but I might just run them from the current dac. So optical out to the dac to run the stax and then HDMI to coax to the Genelecs.

 

[linuxfan]

think I can use a coax to AES cable as it's a short run.

Well that might work, depending on how tolerant the Genelec's AES3 input circuit is to low voltage signals - remember, s/pdif specifies an output level of 0.5V p-p, whereas AES3 specifies an output level between 2 and 7V p-p.
I suggest you test carefully at low volume, at first. If you hear any dropouts, then the cable interface is not good enough - and you will need to connect up a proper AES3 output board, as I mentioned in post #3. The wiring of the AES board is quite straightforward - the I2S connection is 5 wires - SDATA, BCK, LRCK, MCLK, GND. And then you just need to connect the AES board's 5V input wire to a 5V line on the HDMI board - the easiest place would be near the barrel connector.

 

[TimH]

Thanks for your help, much appreciated! I'll do a test first and then if I hit any issues I'll dive in and see if I can hook up the AES board - always good to try something new.

 

[Music1969]

My question is - do you think there would be an audible difference between the analogue out of the ADI-2 DAC vs the digital out of the PRO?

Actually, better to use the digital out of the PRO model

 

[linuxfan]

Actually, better to use the digital out of the PRO model

Yes, I agree, the ADI-2 Pro's digital output is certainly a more optimal signal for the Genelec monitors, in theory, than the analogue output ...
but think about it: if you feed a digital input to the ADI-2 Pro, and then use the ADI-2 Pro's digital output, you are simply passing the digital signal through the device - and the only signal processing involved will be DSP, if enabled. So you are buying a $2000 DAC, and bypassing its core DAC function!
I think it makes much more sense to pass your digital source directly to the Genelec monitors. If you really want DSP in between, there are cheaper options - think miniDSP DDRC-22D.
And if your only reason for wanting DSP is a loudness setting - I believe it's time to consider changing speakers and/or amplifier!

 

[TimH]

Yeah, I guess the 'loudness' question is one I would have to answer by testing a unit. I'm not sure if I need it, but from having read the posts on this forum its something that would make sense for 80% of the time I listen due to the volume I tend to use. The speakers sound amazing so nothing seems to be missing, but I guess I've been on a quest to get as good a sound as I can get and this is the last piece of the puzzle. I have a s/pdif to AES cable now and so can do a test using my Dac and GLM hooked up to my PC to see if I notice a difference vs XLR. If not I might get a RME dac from a local shop to see if the loudness compensation has an impact. If none of the above I'll go with the HDMI convertor and GLM remote! Thanks again for your help!

 

[lateparty]

Yes, I agree, the ADI-2 Pro's digital output is certainly a more optimal signal for the Genelec monitors, in theory, than the analogue output ...
but think about it: if you feed a digital input to the ADI-2 Pro, and then use the ADI-2 Pro's digital output, you are simply passing the digital signal through the device - and the only signal processing involved will be DSP, if enabled. So you are buying a $2000 DAC, and bypassing its core DAC function!
I think it makes much more sense to pass your digital source directly to the Genelec monitors. If you really want DSP in between, there are cheaper options - think miniDSP DDRC-22D.
And if your only reason for wanting DSP is a loudness setting - I believe it's time to consider changing speakers and/or amplifier!

The directly is the problem! One of my sources has to be USB, and the other can be USB or Optical.
I also have a headphone amp on my desk that I would like to feed with a signal from either of those sources.

As I have an SMSL SU-9 (RIP) I feel like either the Audio GD DI-20 + an Optical to Spdif box for no around the back reaching, or the Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2 + around the back switching inputs might be the best options for me. Also the Gustard U16 which Wolf ripped apart - but it does offer AES which is needed/preferred for the Genelecs and his $70 XMOS device which [strike]doesn’t[/strike] does! Ali express link here to the AF200 or it is this XMOS U208 with Wolf Audio watermark

If only ANY of the top DACs had a digital out on them. Either of the Soncoz would have been pretty perfect except for the cost to SINAD fixing the IMD hump. Oh and I think it’s been discussed, the RME Pro but that thing is crazy expensive.

Edit: Forgot the Gustard. Not including other more expensive options over the Matrix with only 1 input for obvious reasons.
Edit 2: I realised why the Taobao page wasn’t loading…. d’oh.
Edit 3: Another contender appears.

 

[linuxfan]

I can use a coax to AES cable as it's a short run.

Just revisiting this thread to mention a worthwhile product for those who wish to feed a coaxial s/pdif source into an AES3 input -
75 Ohm to 110 Ohm digital audio transformer -
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/367655-REG/Canare_BCJXPTRB_BCJ_XP_TRB_75_Ohm_to.html

Although this will only marginally raise the voltage of the s/pdif signal, it correctly isolates the AES3 pins 2 and 3 from GND, whilch will avoid any hum issues, and correctly matches the signal impedance to 110 ohms, such that the AES3 input device has a good chance of locking onto the digital data.
Active s/pdif-to-AES3 converters do a more thorough job, but a simple transformer may make the difference between the connection being successful or not.

 

[Zenek73]

Another refresh of the topic
@TimH - so which option have you finally chosen?
And digital impet is sounds much better than digital? Im currently using only analog input from my RPi->DAC chain and I was looking for something like USB->AES converter but also with SPIDIF input for CD. RME Pro looks great but its still expensive even after SE version release.

 

[TimH]

@Zenek73 I went with the non pro RME Dac in the end. It was a while back now but if I remember reading something from Genelec that stated there was no audible difference so it made sense to me to save the money. Really happy with them, I think that’s me set for life.

 

[linuxfan]

Let me reiterate that no matter how good your DAC is, its analogue output will always be converted back to digital at the Genelec input. That's just how Genelecs work.

I'm currently using only analog input from my RPi->DAC chain and I was looking for something like USB->AES converter

Going digital from rPi to Genelec is certainly a good idea, and USB-to-AES3 converter is one option to achieve this.
Another option is an AES3 output board for your rPi -
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/dac-...terface-aes-ebu-for-raspberry-pi-p-13316.html

also with S/PDIF input for CD

You can try a coaxial-to-AES3 (RCA-to-XLR) cable between CD player and Genelecs, but if you encounter audio dropouts or hum, you might need a 75 Ohm to 110 Ohm digital audio transformer, as I mentioned in post #15.

 

[Zenek73]

@linuxfan yes I have seen the hat for rpi. Unfortunately there is no case for such solution. Or I wasn't able to find it.
I also thought about https://www.yellowtec.com/puc2/puc2-lite.html converter. Then I could even feed data directly from my Roon Core server to Genelec. Mentioned CD transport is sth I'm still thinking about. Not sure when I decide to buy it. More expensive and future-proof would be https://www.lake-people.de/en/categories/converter-solutions/lake-people-dat-rs-05 also phisical volume regulation is a nice feature (of course I can buy wire/wireless controller connected to GLM -another 100€ or so).
I have time to find a reasonable solution. Analog approach works
Unfortunally my main idea is not to buy Chinese or made in China products It really reduces my choices. Fortunately there are still some companies from Germany mentioned brands), Italy or Taiwan.

 

[linuxfan]

Those are some expensive options! But I admire anyone who tries to avoid buying from China.

yes I have seen the hat for rpi. Unfortunately there is no case for such solution.

With slight modification this would work -
https://thepihut.com/collections/ra...berry-dac-xlr-raspberry-pi-4-steel-case-black
or this
https://thepihut.com/collections/ra...s/metal-case-for-low-profile-ice-tower-cooler