Review and Measurements of Totaldac d1-six DAC

[LSB]

I took a shot but was not easy to interpret their graph. No sample rate or other conditions are given. Furthermore, the graph given by them has a vertical scale that is in digital values (dBFS). The usual test is to see that as analog output of the DAC, not digital samples. Anyway, here is the best I can do:
View attachment 30138

I guess at the input value being -122 dBFS. We see that signal peaking through like theirs. My measurements however show a) lots of mains harmonics and b) harmonic distortions. The key is that all the ills of the DAC disappear when you give it such a small signal. Without a good analyzer like mine, it is easy to show all of what is left that is unwanted, buried in the noise.

Thanks very much for doing the above test and all your hard work.

The TotalDAC measurement T glance looks incredible. Unfortunately it appears they have chosen bizarre parameters and test conditions to produce a misleading graph. Like you wrote its an abuse of measurements in a sales pitch. It casts serious doubts over the TotalDAC integrity.

They could have so easily have published the industry standard of 0db and -60dB IkHz FET. Not doing so gives the appearance they have something to hide. Something like you found. Well done

This sure makes the PCM1704 R2R laser trimmed chip properly implemented in classic DACs like your Mark Levinson 360 look good.

 

[typericey]

I wonder how it sounds. It probably emulates a really high end turntable, MC cartridge and tube phono preamp.

 

[THW]

Yeah I am with John on the main idea of the video. Everything can be measured.

in the realm of audio electronics, yeah I wouldn't disagree.

if you ask me, it really takes a special amount of hubris to think that your hearing is "golden" and "magical" and has immeasurable properties that makes it superior to even the most advanced measuring equipment in existence. it also takes a special amount of hubris to basically disregard the entire field of psychoacoustics thinking you're smarter and thinking that your hearing is the most reliable way of evaluating equipment no matter what.

 

[M00ndancer]

So I am sharing a point of view based on my experience. Maybe my ears and brains have been confused since years, but when I moved from previous systems (Linn, Naim etc) to TotalDac, I heard more from TotalDac. You can say it creates defects I like but it is what it is. RME which measures so well is very good but I am not « experiencing » the music the same way. I even prefer the Chord H2 a bit more vs RME because of the same. And I bought all of them, and now I really don’t care that the most costly should give the best. I am conscious of all these discussions about science vs perception, but I still have the same perception / emotions (+ space +positioning of instruments +rythm +...): more with TotalDac just a bit less with others.

Hi @FredYves
I'm afraid that if you haven't really blind tested all your gear, you can't be sure of almost anything. Sighted listening makes the brain do stupid things, same goes for really small differences in volume. You're also ranking your DACs in price order. That said, I can understand a preference in sound signature. But what I can't wrap my head around the fact that you're deliberately adding distortion so soon in the signal chain.

 

[JJB70]

Just think of what you could do with the money you would save buying an Apple USB dongle or a March Audio DAC if you want a nice bit of kit that comes with pride of ownership instead of this And you would have a better product, oh the pity of it......

 

[THW]

Just think of what you could do with the money you would save buying an Apple USB dongle or a March Audio DAC if you want a nice bit of kit that comes with pride of ownership instead of this And you would have a better product, oh the pity of it......

on top of bad measurements it doesn’t even look that good so it’s not like you can show it off that proudly to people who aren’t into this sort of thing...

 

[maty]

If I were the owner of the company, I would send a sample to a third party to validate amirm's measurements, with other APx555. Being such an expensive product I see no reason not to do so if he think the measurements are not as disastrous as the ones shown here.

It is one thing to have harmonics like H2, H3 ... and another very different that vastness, something is not right.

 

[maty]

Well. I discovered audioscience some months back and I like it a lot. Thanks to the reports, I have bought a RME ADI2 and other stuff. I like the RME very much. It happens that I am also the owner of several other DAC, like Chord Hugo 2 and since some years ... a TotalDac. I also know a bit Vincent Brient the designer of TotalDac (yes, I am leaving in France). This guy is not graduated in marketing but electronics. It may be the case that my ears and brains are confused because of the price I paid, but I prefer the Chord to the RME and the TotalDac to the Chord. And I have nothîng against science.

Perhaps the explanation is in the use of tube amplifiers with too much distortion (designs with little distortion are not usually appreciated). If so, it will be very difficult to differentiate between DACs.

What preamp and amp do you use?

 

[graz_lag]

Hi @FredYves
I'm afraid that if you haven't really blind tested all your gear, you can't be sure of almost anything. Sighted listening makes the brain do stupid things, same goes for really small differences in volume. You're also ranking your DACs in price order. That said, I can understand a preference in sound signature. But what I can't wrap my head around the fact that you're deliberately adding distortion so soon in the signal chain.

It looks @FredYves prefers Audio Gears that "produce music" rather than "reproducing" as per the original concept behind the Hi-Fi.
The odd in all this is that for the price of a TotalDAC one can set up a proper Home Studio if his primary goal is to produce music !

 

[Andreas007]

Let me show you something. Here is the waveform of a 1 kHz tone as produced by Totaldac d1-six with measurement bandwidth of 90 kHz but sample rate of 44.1 kHz:

View attachment 30139

Normally the scope display has too coarse of a resolution to see problems in a DAC. Not so here. Lack of reconstruction filter allows all of those digital steps to now be exposed.

Isn't the complaint from the typical high-end audiophile against digital is that it has "steps?" We have steps. Please explain if steps are bad, why you say people like the sound of this unit.

If I want that kind of waveform I simply select the NOS filter on my RME ADI-2 Pro. No need to spend 13'500 Euro.

 

[thehun]

wow what's with the leftard convention here, I thought this was an audio site...

 

[FredYves]

Perhaps the explanation is in the use of tube amplifiers with too much distortion (designs with little distortion are not usually appreciated). If so, it will be very difficult to differentiate between DACs.

What preamp and amp do you use?

I am using AVM amp or Hypex NCore. So your hypothesis is not correct. My loudspeakers are Vivid Giya G3. I am also listening via headphones, Focal Utopia directly connected to the DAC or via Rupert Neve RNHP.

 

[FredYves]

Hi @FredYves
I'm afraid that if you haven't really blind tested all your gear, you can't be sure of almost anything. Sighted listening makes the brain do stupid things, same goes for really small differences in volume. You're also ranking your DACs in price order. That said, I can understand a preference in sound signature. But what I can't wrap my head around the fact that you're deliberately adding distortion so soon in the signal chain.

I am not discovering the debate between perception and measures. By education, I even got a post doc in maths ... some times ago. I am not listening having in mind to remind the price in € or $ of the DAC. I am listening to the music. There are some CDs I am listening all the time, and I am used to them some since 20 years: the music itself, the rythm, the instruments, where are they, the « color » of the voices, the emotions etc. When I move from system A to system B for these records, I can feel if something is different, if I am hearing new things, less things etc. So no science, but neither based on a one time listening.
As this forum is fully centered on measures (and I like it very much for that), I was just sharing my personal experience based on hours of listening. And I am hearing more from TotalDac or get more emotions from it, than from Chord H2, and a bit more than from RME ADI2. I like them all, I bought them all so my perception is not based on a one time listening.
Nevertheless, I trust the seriousness of Amir and the measures of TotalDac are a shame for the product. It doesn’t align with what I hear but at the end, who cares ; -)

 

[FredYves]

It looks @FredYves prefers Audio Gears that "produce music" rather than "reproducing" as per the original concept behind the Hi-Fi.
The odd in all this is that for the price of a TotalDAC one can set up a proper Home Studio if his primary goal is to produce music !

Very funny indeed. I wish you the best.

 

[Thomas savage]

I am using AVM amp or Hypex NCore. So your hypothesis is not correct. My loudspeakers are Vivid Giya G3. I am also listening via headphones, Focal Utopia directly connected to the DAC or via Rupert Neve RNHP.

Bit off topic but I'm using Hypex modules from @March Audio to drive my G3's . A great combination imo.

I don't think anythings broken in this partialDAC ( 'total' don't seem right given the measurements) other than the design execution and concept.

I'm not surprised some feel they like it though, blind tests would be required if we are to draw any conclusions from that .

 

[maty]

I am using AVM amp or Hypex NCore. So your hypothesis is not correct. My loudspeakers are Vivid Giya G3. I am also listening via headphones, Focal Utopia directly connected to the DAC or via Rupert Neve RNHP.

With that system it is assumed that you will also listen to quality recordings. I can not find a logical explanation.

I find it very hard to believe he does not have at least one old APx525 for measurements. Something does not quite fit.

With a third party, trustworthy, we had get out of doubt. But I am not the owner.

 

[maty]

That a device has excellent measurements does not necessarily imply that the sound is great. There is no univocal relationship. But the measurements serve to detect if quality standards are met and if we have done something wrong.

 

[Willem]

If the right measures were taken the relationship is unequivocal.

 

[JJB70]

If the right measures were taken the relationship is unequivocal.

This.

 

[FredYves]

Bit off topic but I'm using Hypex modules from @March Audio to drive my G3's . A great combination imo.

I don't think anythings broken in this partialDAC ( 'total' don't seem right given the measurements) other than the design execution and concept.

I'm not surprised some feel they like it though, blind tests would be required if we are to draw any conclusions from that .

My Hypex NCore were assembled by James Romeyn. I am using 3 stereo amps in an AV set-up with JM Reynaud’s Abscisse loudspeakers. Particularly enjoyable with multi channel music - source bluray through Oppo 105d or Pioneer LX500.
G3’s are most of the time powered by AVM SA8.2. I will not comment again on TotalDac but it has been years back a very significant improvement vs Linn Akurate (I can precise: for me, my ears, the music I listen to, and in my room. I was just able to hear some instruments which were hidden before in some CDs; I had a better localization of the musicians etc. And it was « easy » to hear: the same room, the same records I have listened repeatedly during years).